I have PT LE, a 001 at 6.4 and a 002R with 7.3. I have an opportunity to buy a ready set go HD3 rig with a current version of PT and a bunch o plugs. It isn't the excel HD version so it is a few years old. I'm just on the fence about spending 10K to go HD3. The package is a great deal but do I really need HD?
I'm preatty happy tracking at 44.1 / 24.
Opinions please.
To LE or HD, That is the question...
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Marc Alan Goodman
- george martin
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I don't think anybody here can tell you if it's gonna bring in $10K more work. If working native is fine for your system why not look into picking up PT M-Powered, the ProLightpipe interface (16 channels of lightpipe, 2 of spdif) and an Apogee AD16X (and maybe a DA if you mix out of the box, if not you could get away with a rosetta 200 for your main outs and 2 more ins).
You'd have the same power native rig and 18 ins with way nicer converters and a WAY better clock for less than half the price.
What's your setup like now? Do you mix more in or out of the box? No high track counts I assume if that isn't a big part of your reason to move to HD?
Another thing to consider is that going this route you'd only be one piece of software away from running any other native program. Personally I'm happy to stay with protools, but if you're looking for something inbetween HD and LE that seems a great way to go.
-marc goodman
(is it obvious that I think about this a lot?)
You'd have the same power native rig and 18 ins with way nicer converters and a WAY better clock for less than half the price.
What's your setup like now? Do you mix more in or out of the box? No high track counts I assume if that isn't a big part of your reason to move to HD?
Another thing to consider is that going this route you'd only be one piece of software away from running any other native program. Personally I'm happy to stay with protools, but if you're looking for something inbetween HD and LE that seems a great way to go.
-marc goodman
(is it obvious that I think about this a lot?)
Good points. It is obvious that you have been thinking about this. This is not a planned purchase. I just stumbled upon it. I'm just tempted to have more processing power and no latency. I almost never run out of tracks. I mix in the box. I track at 44.1 / 24 bit because it is going to CD anyway.
I basically happy running 6.4 on my 001 but I've always been tempted by an HD system and the cost is right on this one. I just don't know what to do.
I'm tempted to get it and put an HD card in a Rosetta 800 and use that for my interface and dump the 192 Digi Interface.
Well I gave an offer on it and I'll see if it is accepted.
I basically happy running 6.4 on my 001 but I've always been tempted by an HD system and the cost is right on this one. I just don't know what to do.
I'm tempted to get it and put an HD card in a Rosetta 800 and use that for my interface and dump the 192 Digi Interface.
Well I gave an offer on it and I'll see if it is accepted.
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joel hamilton
- zen recordist
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I truly enjoy working on the HD3 rig we have here at Studio G. It can do anything i ask it to, with no latency ( a must for professional work) and I like the way it sounds, even with the digi converters. I use an apogee rosetta 200 for printing the 2 track analog pront back in, but not because i dont like the HD converters. I just like using varied gear on the mx, so no one inherent "sound" loads up across a few passes. Just my opinion, but it has worked on a zillion records for me at this point.
Whether or not HD is good is not in question here. Is it better than LE? yes! do you need it? I dunno, that is up to you and the situation that is unique to you.
You will enjoy it very much if you find yourself working on an HD rig, after having to do many workarounds and stupid things to make LE work for you. I did it, but I also always had a tape machine in the room and thought PT was not so great until HD came out, and now I genuinely enjoy using it... especially if the basics were tracked to the studer first.....
Whether or not HD is good is not in question here. Is it better than LE? yes! do you need it? I dunno, that is up to you and the situation that is unique to you.
You will enjoy it very much if you find yourself working on an HD rig, after having to do many workarounds and stupid things to make LE work for you. I did it, but I also always had a tape machine in the room and thought PT was not so great until HD came out, and now I genuinely enjoy using it... especially if the basics were tracked to the studer first.....
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GooberNumber9
- tinnitus
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There are a lot of things that HD does that LE can't do, or won't do without an upgrade, that might figure into your decision.
1) LE does not support multi-channel audio (5.1, DTS, LCR, etc.).
2) Beat Detective on LE is only one track at a time unless you get the Music Production Toolkit ($600). From my point of view, single-track beat detective is almost useless.
3) LE won't display SMTPE time without the DV Toolkit ($1350!!). The DV Toolkit also unlocks lots of features like improved session import and other nice things that come out of the box with HD.
4) LE does not have trim automation and therefore doesn't support the new alternate trim automation playlists.
5) Some control surface features (like autojoin) are not supported or poorly supported on LE.
6) Using outboard gear and hardware inserts as part of the mix is a bigger pain on LE (especially at 88.2 or 96 kHz).
7) Many very nice plug-ins are only available for TDM systems (Line6 Amp Farm is a good example).
8) The HD mix bus is 48-bit integer, the LE mix bus is 32-bit float. My ears like the HD mix bus and I can hear the difference (if I've got enough tracks going).
9) There are several subtle menu functions and little fiddly bits that you can only do on HD. I can't remember them all but there have been several times when I've gone to do something at home and been stymied by the fact that LE just doesn't have it.
10) Tracking with low-latency record mode in LE (002/002R only) is ok but not all it's cracked up to be. Tracking on HD is easier, IMHO.
Don't get me wrong, I love LE. I mean, what it does for how little I paid for it is pretty amazing. I think before you make that kind of decision having a good sense of what you're getting for all that extra money helps.
Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I think you have to have at least one Digidesign interface plugged in to a DSP card for HD to load (AND an iLok). So you might not be able to roll with just the Apogee interface, you might have to have both plugged in.
Good luck in your decision!
Todd Wilcox
1) LE does not support multi-channel audio (5.1, DTS, LCR, etc.).
2) Beat Detective on LE is only one track at a time unless you get the Music Production Toolkit ($600). From my point of view, single-track beat detective is almost useless.
3) LE won't display SMTPE time without the DV Toolkit ($1350!!). The DV Toolkit also unlocks lots of features like improved session import and other nice things that come out of the box with HD.
4) LE does not have trim automation and therefore doesn't support the new alternate trim automation playlists.
5) Some control surface features (like autojoin) are not supported or poorly supported on LE.
6) Using outboard gear and hardware inserts as part of the mix is a bigger pain on LE (especially at 88.2 or 96 kHz).
7) Many very nice plug-ins are only available for TDM systems (Line6 Amp Farm is a good example).
8) The HD mix bus is 48-bit integer, the LE mix bus is 32-bit float. My ears like the HD mix bus and I can hear the difference (if I've got enough tracks going).
9) There are several subtle menu functions and little fiddly bits that you can only do on HD. I can't remember them all but there have been several times when I've gone to do something at home and been stymied by the fact that LE just doesn't have it.
10) Tracking with low-latency record mode in LE (002/002R only) is ok but not all it's cracked up to be. Tracking on HD is easier, IMHO.
Don't get me wrong, I love LE. I mean, what it does for how little I paid for it is pretty amazing. I think before you make that kind of decision having a good sense of what you're getting for all that extra money helps.
Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I think you have to have at least one Digidesign interface plugged in to a DSP card for HD to load (AND an iLok). So you might not be able to roll with just the Apogee interface, you might have to have both plugged in.
Good luck in your decision!
Todd Wilcox
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ceilingcat84
- alignin' 24-trk
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joel hamilton
- zen recordist
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ceilingcat84
- alignin' 24-trk
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maybe it's just the post-production people that need such a high track count. i was wonderin if accel was worth it or just another Digi attempt to extort money from peoplejoel hamilton wrote:No,ceilingcat84 wrote:joel, is your HD rig an Accel system?
we got into HD before they debuted accel. Like 6 months later that came out.
I dont miss it, if that is what you mean. AN HD3 rig is plenty of power for me.... 128 tracks is just fine for me....
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directaction
- gettin' sounds
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Nice job summing it up Todd! I don't think I've seen the differences addressed so directly before. For me it boils down to a few big qualms with my 002:GooberNumber9 wrote:
1) LE does not support multi-channel audio (5.1, DTS, LCR, etc.).
2) Beat Detective on LE is only one track at a time unless you get the Music Production Toolkit ($600). From my point of view, single-track beat detective is almost useless.
3) LE won't display SMTPE time without the DV Toolkit ($1350!!). The DV Toolkit also unlocks lots of features like improved session import and other nice things that come out of the box with HD.
4) LE does not have trim automation and therefore doesn't support the new alternate trim automation playlists.
5) Some control surface features (like autojoin) are not supported or poorly supported on LE.
6) Using outboard gear and hardware inserts as part of the mix is a bigger pain on LE (especially at 88.2 or 96 kHz).
7) Many very nice plug-ins are only available for TDM systems (Line6 Amp Farm is a good example).
The HD mix bus is 48-bit integer, the LE mix bus is 32-bit float. My ears like the HD mix bus and I can hear the difference (if I've got enough tracks going).
9) There are several subtle menu functions and little fiddly bits that you can only do on HD. I can't remember them all but there have been several times when I've gone to do something at home and been stymied by the fact that LE just doesn't have it.
10) Tracking with low-latency record mode in LE (002/002R only) is ok but not all it's cracked up to be. Tracking on HD is easier, IMHO.
-I am constantly adding more outboard gear to my ITB mixes and it is a PITA due to delay compensation (or lack there of)!! Of course if I had a console it would be a non-issue...
-If you want to record a bunch of tracks simultaneously or mix out of the box, I'd do the Black Lion mod to clean up the 002 pres/converters to be used with whatever outboard converters you have
-No word clock input on 002 other than over lightpipe
The other things mentioned have yet to bother me, although I do have the Music Production Toolkit Todd mentioned above, as well as a computer that seems to handle low buffers and multiple sends/plugs so tracking latency is no problem either.
Hope it helps in someway-
Josh
Well I did it. I went HD. Here is what I bought:
ProTools: $8100
v7.2
Power Mac G5 2.7 GHz
(2) 512MB DIMM Modules
Apple 20? Cinema Display DVI
Digidesign Core card HD
Digidesign Processor Card HD2
Digidesign Processor Card HD3
Digidesign I/O Box 192
Glyph HD GT050200 200GB FireWire
MOTU AV MIDI TimePiece
PLUG-INs:
Sony Oxford EQ w/GML
Sony Oxford Compressor
Audio Ease Altiverb
Line 6 Echo Farm
Wave Machanics Speed
IK Multimedia Amplitube
Waves Masters L2/EQ/Comp
Crane Song Phoenix
SoundToys PhaseMistress
Digidesign Sound-Replacer
Antares Auto-Tune 4
Bomb Factory Slightly Rude Compressor
Bomb Factory BF76 Compressor
Pultec EQ?s
1/4"Patch Bay 16
Did I do good on the price? I think it is good considering it is a turn key system, a good mac G5, 20" display, plus the 192 I/O box....oh, I made him throw in an AT4047 mic too. That was a lot of money though. I can buy nothing for the next year....
ProTools: $8100
v7.2
Power Mac G5 2.7 GHz
(2) 512MB DIMM Modules
Apple 20? Cinema Display DVI
Digidesign Core card HD
Digidesign Processor Card HD2
Digidesign Processor Card HD3
Digidesign I/O Box 192
Glyph HD GT050200 200GB FireWire
MOTU AV MIDI TimePiece
PLUG-INs:
Sony Oxford EQ w/GML
Sony Oxford Compressor
Audio Ease Altiverb
Line 6 Echo Farm
Wave Machanics Speed
IK Multimedia Amplitube
Waves Masters L2/EQ/Comp
Crane Song Phoenix
SoundToys PhaseMistress
Digidesign Sound-Replacer
Antares Auto-Tune 4
Bomb Factory Slightly Rude Compressor
Bomb Factory BF76 Compressor
Pultec EQ?s
1/4"Patch Bay 16
Did I do good on the price? I think it is good considering it is a turn key system, a good mac G5, 20" display, plus the 192 I/O box....oh, I made him throw in an AT4047 mic too. That was a lot of money though. I can buy nothing for the next year....
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theshaggyfreak
- gimme a little kick & snare
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- Contact:
$8100 was the total? Not bad! Where was that from?Huntlabs wrote:Well I did it. I went HD. Here is what I bought:
ProTools: $8100
v7.2
Power Mac G5 2.7 GHz
(2) 512MB DIMM Modules
Apple 20? Cinema Display DVI
Digidesign Core card HD
Digidesign Processor Card HD2
Digidesign Processor Card HD3
Digidesign I/O Box 192
Glyph HD GT050200 200GB FireWire
MOTU AV MIDI TimePiece
PLUG-INs:
Sony Oxford EQ w/GML
Sony Oxford Compressor
Audio Ease Altiverb
Line 6 Echo Farm
Wave Machanics Speed
IK Multimedia Amplitube
Waves Masters L2/EQ/Comp
Crane Song Phoenix
SoundToys PhaseMistress
Digidesign Sound-Replacer
Antares Auto-Tune 4
Bomb Factory Slightly Rude Compressor
Bomb Factory BF76 Compressor
Pultec EQ?s
1/4"Patch Bay 16
Did I do good on the price? I think it is good considering it is a turn key system, a good mac G5, 20" display, plus the 192 I/O box....oh, I made him throw in an AT4047 mic too. That was a lot of money though. I can buy nothing for the next year....
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