reamping - is it necessary with a DAW?

[joninc]

i am wanting to expirement with reamping this year and i am wondering why i would need a REAMP since my tracks are in a DAW and i can just turn them down so as not to drive the amp too hard....

am i missing something here? i have never had a great grasp of impedance etc...

also - if i do need to use a device to reamp - can anyone recommend an affordable unit that does stereo (2 chan?)... thanks!!

j

[runrunrun]

the basic reason is because your daw will be sending out a line level signal and a guitar amp is expecting to see an instrument level signal...someone else will probably chime in with a more technical answer concerning impedance.

basically the guitar amp will sound better when it receives the proper type of signal that it is expecting to see. search for reamp in the archives and you will probably find lots more info, including instructions for a DIY reamp.

[joninc]

this is what i don't get - isn't line ievel basically a volume level? can't you just turn down the outputs of whatever you are sending out to reamp?

[theshaggyfreak]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reamping

Here's some background on re-amping.

[thethingwiththestuff]

there's more to it than just level. god, i wish i had a better grasp on electricity to explain the causes properly, but the effects of a mismatch include too much level (which, yes, can be dealt with...) but also too much of a harsh, distorted high end.

[runrunrun]

from wikipedia

Playing back a signal from recording studio equipment directly into a guitar amplifier can cause unwanted side-effects such as input-stage distortion, treble loss or overemphasis, and ground-loop hum; thus there is sometimes a need for impedance conversion, level-matching, and ground alteration. Like running a guitar signal through a guitar effects pedal that is set to Bypass, re-amping introduces some degree of sonic degradation compared to playing a guitar live directly into a guitar amp rig. Products such as the Reamp? are designed to minimize sonic degradation.

[meblumen]

from wikipedia

Playing back a signal from recording studio equipment directly into a guitar amplifier can cause unwanted side-effects such as input-stage distortion, treble loss or overemphasis, and ground-loop hum; thus there is sometimes a need for impedance conversion, level-matching, and ground alteration. Like running a guitar signal through a guitar effects pedal that is set to Bypass, re-amping introduces some degree of sonic degradation compared to playing a guitar live directly into a guitar amp rig. Products such as the Reamp? are designed to minimize sonic degradation.

The above pretty much sums it up, basically in addition to volume it's an issue of impedance. Your amp is expecting to see a guitar not your converters and the difference in loads can sometimes cause problems. With that said you can just run a line out from your converter or mixer right into your amp and give it a go. Recording is as much a science as an art so I urge people to learn the academic side but there are no hard, fast rules. I use equipment for unintended reasons all the time. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Way back in the day I used to do things like take an output or an aux send and run it into an amp or pedal all the time. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't and one time I blew a speakers. A reamp device is very handy because you know it will work so there are few uncertainties. Helpful in a commercial setting or when time is of the essence. However, if you are just doing this for fun, experiment. You will make mistakes and as a result you will learn from them.

Should you feel the need to purchase a reamp device there are plenty to choose from. Of course there is the Reamp, Radial makes one, so does Little Labs and I'm guessing a few other companies as well. You can also use a passive DI in reverse. It's not quite as good as using one of the afore mentioned devices but better than going straight from your converter/mixer. These can be had for as little as $20-30 so maybe try one of these first. If you are handy you can build one too. Do a search for NewYorkDave and you'll come up with a nice cheap schematic otherwise check out the Jensen website they have a schematic for use with one of there transformers as well.

[UXB]

from wikipedia

Playing back a signal from recording studio equipment directly into a guitar amplifier can cause unwanted side-effects such as input-stage distortion, treble loss or overemphasis, and ground-loop hum; thus there is sometimes a need for impedance conversion, level-matching, and ground alteration. Like running a guitar signal through a guitar effects pedal that is set to Bypass, re-amping introduces some degree of sonic degradation compared to playing a guitar live directly into a guitar amp rig. Products such as the Reamp? are designed to minimize sonic degradation.

The above pretty much sums it up, basically in addition to volume it's an issue of impedance. Your amp is expecting to see a guitar not your converters and the difference in loads can sometimes cause problems. With that said you can just run a line out from your converter or mixer right into your amp and give it a go. Recording is as much a science as an art so I urge people to learn the academic side but there are no hard, fast rules. I use equipment for unintended reasons all the time. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Way back in the day I used to do things like take an output or an aux send and run it into an amp or pedal all the time. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't and one time I blew a speakers. A reamp device is very handy because you know it will work so there are few uncertainties. Helpful in a commercial setting or when time is of the essence. However, if you are just doing this for fun, experiment. You will make mistakes and as a result you will learn from them.

Should you feel the need to purchase a reamp device there are plenty to choose from. Of course there is the Reamp, Radial makes one, so does Little Labs and I'm guessing a few other companies as well. You can also use a passive DI in reverse. It's not quite as good as using one of the afore mentioned devices but better than going straight from your converter/mixer. These can be had for as little as $20-30 so maybe try one of these first. If you are handy you can build one too. Do a search for NewYorkDave and you'll come up with a nice cheap schematic otherwise check out the Jensen website they have a schematic for use with one of there transformers as well.

Beautifully explained!

[Jeff White]

I've had the Radial box since the summer and it's a lot of fun. I've run NI's B4II out of the box and into a 70s Fender Twin many a time since then. Vocals as well.

Sunday I shocked a guitar player (as in smoking gtr player friend, tone junky, etc) friend of mine by separating performance from getting a sound. We recorded gtr on location direct through my BLA-modded 828mk2 into DP and monitored through NI's guitar rig. Ya know, got a sound in GR that was usable to record with, but did not print this sound. This enabled him to sit in front of my Powerbook and monitors and simply concentrate on playing.

After about 8 takes, we picked the best parts, comp'd together a track, and reamped it through my Mesa DC-3. It was recorded back into DP with a '57 into Channel 1 of my Sytek MPX-4Aii. My friend was amazed at how flexible recording guitar like this can be. I let him tweak the amp until he liked the tone while his track was looping through it. He referred to it as surreal.

You really never have to worry about recording guitar and bass and getting a sound, mic placement, etc. It's nice to nail the performance and then worry about the sound. Also, if you have problems with dirty power, RF interference, etc, well, you can always move the operation elsewhere if you have a mobile setup. Noise no longer becomes a problem if you primarily record in apartments. Find a place to mic and amp and reamp your tracks through it. Try out and combine different amps, pedals, etc.

I can't say enough good things about the Radial box and reamping in general. It's really made recording guitars and bass more liquid, and can be used to breathe character into VIs and vocals as well.

Jeff

[SMC Productions]

I can't say enough good things about the Radial box and reamping in general. It's really made recording guitars and bass more liquid, and can be used to breathe character into VIs and vocals as well.

Jeff

Excellent! I'll add my 'second' to this assessment! Nice well built box, and it sounds great. I don't think a person who records guitar on even a semi-regular basis, could do without one!

[RodC]

Check out this thread where we discussed some alternatives (Starting on page 2):

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... &&start=15

[Jeff White]

Here's an idea for recording a full band and reamping later.

Have everyone set up in one room.

Mic the drums to taste.

Have the guitar player(s) and bass player plug into direct box(s) and take these feeds to your DAW/recorder. Take the High Z out of the DI and plug it into the guitar players pedals and then into Line 6 Pod(s). This will enable the guitar players to use their effects and get a "close to" tone. Send output of POD(s) to DAW for monitoring ---> headphone amp. Bass player can take main monitoring feed off of DAW.

I've done this and it works like a charm. Band is together, recording a performance, not a bunch of overdubs.

ReAmp everyone later, including bass player, keyboard player, etc.

One can acquire a version 1 Line6 POD for approx $60.

[Fletcher]

A pod is absolutely not a replacement for a guitar amp in any manner, shape nor form... if its a demo you don't really care about then cool... but if you're trying to make something sound like there is anything even remotely resembling "depth" or "size" those boxes are a complete, total waste of time and money.

You can buy a transformer from Jensen Transformers for like $75-, put it in a box with an XLR and a couple of female 1/4" connectors [takes like an hour or two] and build yourself one kick ass DI box... take the output of your DAW, drop it down real low, convert the impedance with the DI then run the output to your amp... if you want the amp to be a good distance away we came up with a neat little gizmo with Littlelabs called the "STD" [Signal Transmission Device] that lets you run guitar lines like 100 feet without any loss or added noise... but they're like $125-... Littlelabs makes a couple of great boxes for doing "re-amping" as well as being killer DI's [and some do other shit too] so there is really no excuse for settling for a "pod"... at least in my world, YMMV.

Peace.

[oyrgawd]

Send output of POD(s) to DAW for monitoring ---> headphone amp.

I think he meant he was using the POD only for monitoring, and reamping the tracks through real amps for the final recording.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

that was apparent only if you actually read his post.