Overhead questions

[TeleKing]

I've recorded a couple of albums for my band and I've been pretty happy with both albums, second being better, of course. I can even get a good drum sounds even though I'm recording in a dead basement setting. I'm ready to record our next album and need some advice. Recording into Digi002 with some great river pres and a RNP.

The one thing that bothers me though is the overheads. I get too much cymbal usually, and it's a harsh sounding cymbal. I eq the crap out of it in the end, and usually find a good sound after much work, but I do think taking away some frequencies really affects the sound of the actual drums, unfortunately. I have to make compromises on the way I really want the drums to sound because I'm getting too much cymbal, or too harsh a sound in certain frequencies.

I've tried moving the mics in all kinds of configurations based on what people say here and other places, and I also quickly found out each room is different so you have to find the right configuration for that particular room, set the drums in the right spot (takes time to find the best spot), and it's best to play around about find what works best in that room instead of trying to find the perfect mic placement that will work for everyone in all situations--which we all know, won't be the case.

I usually record with five mics. One kick, one snare, two overheads and a room. Strangely, I've had the best luck getting the sound I want with a 57 for a room mic. All my condensors just seem too bright. Anyway, I'll probably keep trying with different mics, but the 57 has been the way to go both times.

I just use a Mackie 1604VLZ pro and eq in the mixer the best I can when recording overheads.

I was using Shure KSM32s for my overheads and I never liked the sound. The mics are just kind of there, and they seem to bring some harshness when used as overheads.

Any recommendations on new overheads? I'd like to keep it to $700 for a pair. I've even thought of just trying one overhead this time and spending $700 on a great mic instead. Has anyone had success with this?

I have very good sonor drums, good cymbals and my brother is a very tasteful player with excellent dynamics, so it's not him beating too hard on the cymbals.

I'd just really like to find a solution because the compromises I make piss me off as I want the drums to sound the way I really want.

Thoughts?

Thanks for anyone taking the time to chime in.

[leftofthedial]

I really like the stereo image I can get from SDC mics but like you, have never really been thrilled with the tone. I've used 414's, KM184s, and MC012s with pretty good success. But about a year back, I started trying more minimalistic drum micing seteup (kick, snare, over) and used an RE20 as an overhead, D112 on kick, and sm57 on snare. It's the best tone I've ever gotten out of a kit, although I did wish I had a better stereo image at mix time. I suspect that if I had a second RE20, they would make an excellent overhead stereo pair. Someone has surely tried this, so please let me know too.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

what pres are you using for the overhead mics?

[TeleKing]

I use Great River pres on the overheads. I just figure that's the signal I'm having the most trouble with, so I should probably use my best pres on them.

[kayagum]

If your cymbals are too bright, maybe put the "overhead" mic(s) in front of the kit, maybe 3'-4'.

Or maybe get a cheap ribbon mic as an overhead.

[LeedyGuy]

Have you tried maybe a mid-side mic technique? The results to my ears sounds more ambient than stereo, but there is definitely stereo information there. Also, since you'll be front and center with the mics, you might not have so much cymbal in there and the act of moving them out front instead of overhead is what someone else suggested too.

Maybe your room is emphasizing the highs more than you think as well. Maybe it's not so "dead" after all.

[TeleKing]

Not sure what the mid-side technique is? Please explain.

Also, any recommendations on overhead mics? I know people talk about Octava's, Shure SM81s, Studio Projects C4s, Rode NT5s, etc. for this price range, but I've heard most of them are somewhat bright. Not sure I need more high end, and I definitely don't need any harshness.

From what I can gather, some say the SM81s are nice flat mics.

Anyway, any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Gummy]

How big is your live room? How high? Are you using any room treatment?

[MoreSpaceEcho]

shure ksm 141s are nice, not hyped, and they'd be in your budget i think.

but what you should REALLY do is save up another 150 bucks and get two beyer m160s and use those. i promise you they wont be harsh. and you can also use them for all your guitar overdubs forevermore and i guarantee you will be PSYCHED.

[Dave Stanley]

As someone already suggested, some cheap ribbons will for surely tame some harshness. At least they wont add to it.

What kind of cymbals are you using? Maybe they're the problem... and the room of course.

[Huntlabs]

Any recommendations on new overheads? I'd like to keep it to $700 for a pair. I've even thought of just trying one overhead this time and spending $700 on a great mic instead. Has anyone had success with this?

Tough to get a good pair for that price. Can you try out some different mics?

You might try some 4047's but I think even they will blow your budget. I like the one that I have.

I got some custom U47 / Hamptone mics and I love love love them. I don't know what I'd do without them.

Perhaps some earthworks mics, I don't have them but I've heard great things about them.

[drumsound]

I kind of t like the idea of a mono overhead. You can use a stereo room pair and still use the same amount of inputs. There are a number of choices for your $700. I see people selling used Blue Dragonflies for $500, and those thigns sound great on overheads.

[cgarges]

From what I can gather, some say the SM81s are nice flat mics.

I'd say exactly the opposite.

See if you can get hold of an old pair of AKG 451s to check out. They're bright, but not in the same sort of harsh way that a lot of inexpensive modern mics are. For less than $700 a pair, I'd also suggest the Oktava MC012s for overhead use, although they're a little bright, too, but again, not as harsh as some other choices.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[tommy]

I usually record with five mics. One kick, one snare, two overheads and a room.

You could try adding close mics to the toms and mix with more emphasis on the close mics for your drum sound.

Strangely, I've had the best luck getting the sound I want with a 57 for a room mic.

I love when 57s win!

[MoreSpaceEcho]

57s are ok for a mono overhead too, if you're going for a sort of mid fi gritty thing. that's about the only thing i like them for.