Ribbon Mics Tracks = Better Post EQ Behaviour?

[theonlymagicalpig]

Hi!

I've read a lot of people raving about how tracks recorded with ribbon microphones seemed to get through post EQ processing better than other type of microphones. I've actually realized that it seemed to be true on my own recordings with cheap ribbon mics though I thought it was because those cheapo models had too much unwanted frequencies...

Any idea if that's true for high end ribbon mics? Any of you Ribbon Gurus would know a reason for that?

Thanks,
Victor.

[creature.of.habit]

maybe cause good ribbons are crude (as in natural) and very lush...as opposed to a mic with a deep eq curve that if you give or take out something, whatever's hyped will stand out even more?

i dunno...

[tonewoods]

I use a ribbon on anything that I'm having a hard time taming (usually by EQ'ing) in the mix...

Pianos, certain vocals, drum OHs, and fiddles come to mind....

It's rare to bring up a ribbon-recorded track in the mix, and not be well on the way to getting it where I want it to be. Whereas condenser-recorded tracks can be problamatic in terms of getting them to fit in the final mix...

IMHO, that's the strong case for using ribbons...

Why is it? I dunno.
A lot of those instruments I mentioned have a lot of "noise" (fiddle bowing for instance) that ribbons tend to downplay. It's like running the instrument through a coffee filter to get the "essence" of the instrument, and ribbons do that very nicely...

"Any idea if that's true for high end ribbon mics?"

That's all I'm using, so I guess that would be a "yes"...

[dirk_v]

From what I understand/recall, it has a lot to do with the inherent resonance of the transducers used. Ribbon transducers typically resonate at frequencies slightly below those we can hear, whereas the diaphragms of condenser mics typically resonate in the high-frequency range (if I recall, around 10KHz or so), so although ribbons tend to sound generally darker, they also sound more natural and take EQ better because of the lack of resonant behaviour in the high-frequency area of the spectrum. Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong.

-dv

[swishniak]

I recenly got a hold of a lower end ribbon and have been using it for many situations with good results.

my biggest problem is dealing with the figure 8 polar pattern. as i record mostly acoustic instruments in a single smallish room, its hard to avoid the bleed.

does anyone have any good tricks for dealing with this.. i know this is a bit off topic, but i would appreciate any ideas. thanks.

[joninc]

hang a blanket or some foam behind the mic to soak up the room tone?

[DupleMeter]

I won't pretend to know why, but I find dynamic mics (ribbon or moving coil) take EQ better than most condensers.

It has certainly changed which mics I grab first.

[glagola1]

Treble = closeness, distance = comfort if the music is loud

If a certain instrament track in a mix has a lot of high frequency the listener will percieve it to be closer and more directly located than a track with highs rolled off. I tend to use ribbon mics as drum OHs because I don't want too much cymbal action. Who wants to listen to a band from on top of the drums? Not me and I'm a drummer.

...and Dirk V had a lot of good things to add.

[joel hamilton]

Better recorded tracks = better post eq behaviour.....

[Professor]

Better recorded tracks = better post eq behaviour.....

Hooray!

I was hoping that would have been the obvious response, but sometimes it takes a while to come around.

I don't think that tracks recorded with ribbons are really any different in mixing than tracks recorded with any other mic... provided the mic was chosen so its particular tone qualities would compliment the instrument.
I am very particular about mic choice and placement, and so I really don't tend to need to EQ any tracks in mix down, unless I was being lazy, or I messed up my choice, or the artist requests a specific sound for the recording after tracking (that drives me nuts).

When I got my first ribbon mics, I put them up in front of everything and learned right away that there are some places where the damn things are just plain miserable and all the EQ in the world can't fix them. But then there are other instruments, sounds, and styles where certain ribbons just bring a tear to the eye because they sound so good.
So I am guessing that the effect you are seeing is not really a specific effect of the ribbon microphone as much as it is the fact that most folks don't reach for the ribbon mic until they really hear it as necessary. We think they are fragile, or recognize that they are slow and not too bright, or we just think they're somehow 'special'. As a result, I think ribbons are chosen more by ear than most other microphones. Just look at all the posts that read something like, "I have a band that plays blankity-blank style coming in this weekend, what mic should I use on drum overheads." That's not choosing a microphone by ear to suit the drumset, rather it is choosing the mic randomly and hoping the instrument will conform. Sometimes we get lucky and sometimes we have to EQ the hell out of the tracks to make 'em work.
Maybe it's not that the ribbons take EQ better, but that the more complicated decision process that led to the ribbon mic coming out meant that the track just plain needed less EQ anyway.

Oh, and as for the pattern problem, just think of it as a mic that rejects everything at 90? off-axis and plan your layout accordingly. You know it picks up from the rear, but that it rejects completely the entire 90?-plane, so don't fact the back of the mic towards something you don't want to hear. And if something shows up in the rear of the mic, then turn the whole setup 90? to the right or left.

-Jeremy

[tonewoods]

"Better recorded tracks = better post eq behaviour....."

Well, I guess that depends on how you define "better"....

For instance, if I'm auditioning mics to record a piano track, I can set up a couple nice condensers (or 3) and come up with a beautiful ("better") sounding track that I then have a hard time fitting in the mix...

I remember the first time I got ahold of some nice ribbons. I put 'em up and recorded a piano, solo'ed the tracks, and couldn't believe how "boring" they sounded compared to say, a couple U67s.

But in the mix, the ribbon-recorded tracks were just what I needed....

So if "better" means a wonderful-sounding track that sounds incredible on it's own, maybe not.

But if "better" means something that will work for you in the end, then "yeah"...

Recording 101, I guess...

[theonlymagicalpig]

What I meant about better post EQ behavior is that ribbon mics takes seem to maintain a usable sound even after some extreme frequency changes through hardware & plugins EQ units whereas audio recorded with condenser microphones seems to "degrade"(might not be the right word) if you push the buttons too far.

So if "better" means a wonderful-sounding track that sounds incredible on it's own, maybe not.

It's true that for solo instrument miking a good condenser shines more on details and often appears to be more true to the source than ribbon mics. Then again I don't own high end microphones but have been able to listen to some expensive ones in action in the past, so I might be wrong as you have to use a microphone A LOT in order to get to know its potential.

Victor.

[joel hamilton]

"

But if "better" means something that will work for you in the end, then "yeah"...

Recording 101, I guess...

[majortom]

Man!...there sure is a lot of "smugness" going on by the people in the know here...

it's easy, I guess, for those who do this for a living to make the general and simple responses to these type of questions, but keep in mind very few of us do this full time and just outlining other peoples posts and acting like you should just simply know, well, we are all just trying to learn.
Statements about recording "101" dont jive well with 'anything goes" which also comes up a lot(by those in the know here )

Jeremy obviously knows his shit, and does Joel, but this is a good question and I appreciate that jeremy at least will elaborate on his answer...cause, thats what we are looking for is information even if YOU think the question is dumb.

Remeber, this is just a little recording forum, I am certain that for every person who asks a simple question here that same person may be a professional who could knock our asses down on the thing that they do full time when we ask a simple question...tom.

[joel hamilton]

Man!...there sure is a lot of "smugness" going on by the people in the know here...

it's easy, I guess, for those who do this for a living to make the general and simple responses to these type of questions, but keep in mind very few of us do this full time and just outlining other peoples posts and acting like you should just simply know, well, we are all just trying to learn.
Statements about recording "101" dont jive well with 'anything goes" which also comes up a lot(by those in the know here )

Jeremy obviously knows his shit, and does Joel, but this is a good question and I appreciate that jeremy at least will elaborate on his answer...cause, thats what we are looking for is information even if YOU think the question is dumb.

Remeber, this is just a little recording forum, I am certain that for every person who asks a simple question here that same person may be a professional who could knock our asses down on the thing that they do full time when we ask a simple question...tom.

Who was being smug?

I really truly meant what I said, and I feel strogly that this is really the answer to the original question about ribbon microphones "taking eq" better than other mics.

Does this require a hand holding 700 word essay? of course not. I NEVER post with disrespect for inexperience. ever.
I wake up feeling lucky every day that i get to record cool stuff for a living, believe me.... but when the answer actually is quite simple, I will give it in straight terms.

I am only "in the know" because i have tried a ton of different things. Some worked, some didnt. big deal.

I truly, truly love recording, and I also love SHARING with other people that love recording. That is really 100% the reason for ANY of my involvement with this messageboard. I most certainly dont get paid to moderate, nor do i get paid to write reviews for tapeop! I simply love to record.

Any feeling of insecurity based on a simple answer is self imposed, my man, and absolutely never will I be condescending about the art of recording.

For real, now. come on. Search any of my posts. Please find one where I was even remotely "smug."