Still searching for the right DAW

[JamesHE]

I started out using Vegas 8 years ago. Love the program. Recording, mixing, and editing AUDIO is second nature to me with Vegas. Problem is that it's not really a DAW anymore, it's a kick ass Video editor with really good audio features. I saw this was happening and stopped upgrading. I am still using Vegas 4!

I got intrested in Samplitude many years ago and bought Sam 6. (just after sam 7 came out - I got it for a rediculous price and planned to use it as a cheap upgrade path) Tried to get into it, but really Vegas was still "my" thing. So I never forked over the cash for SAM 7 (or 8 or now 9)

I've done projects in Cubase (long time ago, version 2 i think) I liked it OK. Almost switched, I just didn't like the audio editing at the time. I'd like to try it with the current version, but as far as I can tell, there is no demo?

2 years ago I decided I needed to get into MIDI. I ended up with ACID 5, which was very intuitive for me. I've been working with both ACID and Vegas, happy with my results, but it's just not a streamlined process.
I sequence MIDI using ACID render it as .wavs and bring it back into Vegas. If I need to make changes to the MIDI files I have to switch back and forth. It's fine just not very efficient. ACID was a great platform for me to learn about sequencing MIDI. Now that I've gotten more advanced in what I want to do and what I think I could do with MIDI I need a real MIDI sequencer now. ACID just isn't going to cut it I'm afraid. I really hoped ACID 6 would bridge the gap for me. It dosen't. I've done 2 30 day trials and it not where I want to go.

So (good after all that he's getting to the point! ) I'm looking for a decent sequencer for working with Virtual instruments, and a good DAW for audio. possibilities abound. I want some opinions about my options! I'm stuck in the DAW stone ages and need to step into the 21st century!

I could...

Finally make the move I had planned to Samplitude. I am already familiar with the program. I still use it for certain editing tasks. The version I have, SAM 6, dosen't have MIDI. So that side of the program is a little bit of a mystery still. I have used the demos (very frustrating limitations) I think I could make this work. It seems overly complex to me however, always has, which ultimately keeps me away. I'm a musician moreso than engineer- I'm tracking myself mostly and need the program to get out of the way as much as possible I have found Sam not to do this - as much as I do like working with it.

Go Pro Tools. I could get a Factory bundle (probably Mbox pro at this point) and get Ableton live and Reason Adapted. I think that would probably satisfy me for a while. Live is an amazing program and I would probably upgrade to the full version right away. I am leaning to this route. I'm not very familiar with Pro Tools. What little time I have had with it, it has seemed pretty intuitive. I think this combined with Live might be the best way to go.

Reaper. Very very Vegas like. I've dipped my toes in and found the water warm. I'm not so excited about the way MIDI is shaping up though (read I can't really figure it out!) Rewiring to Live could be a good solution. Hell it's basically free, I should probably get Live and start there.

Things I've tried that I don't like. Anything Cakewalk - just have never been able to get into it. Tracktion - dude call me when you get a mixer and are not butt-ugly.

I have not tried anything that's mac only. I might really like DP or Logic. A mac is not likely in my future however.

I'm almost sold 100% on Live for the MIDI part of what I need. I wish it had more of a standard piano roll, but I like the simplicity of what it is. And it's a blast. I've been demoing 6 and it's great.

OK some specific questions if anyone could answer. I probably should have just posed these questions in different threads, but oh well.

What is the MIDI like in Pro Tools? I imagine it's rather utilitarian, which is likely fine for me. Or is it awkward?

Does the learning curve ever end with Samplitude? I mean I know how to do mostly what I want with it, it always seems like I'm taking steps I shouldn't have to take (like clicking on OK instead of just closing a plugin or dialog - that's trivial, but it seems redundant to me.) In general I feel like there are just too many windows to navigate through.

Anyone doing rather complex MIDI sequencing with LIVE? and what has that been like? I eventually will probably explore performing with Live, and I can see it being useful as a writing / arranging tool.

Thanks to anyone that can share some thoughts on any of these platforms.

Here's a cookie. (:;) you deserve it after reading all this.

[darjama]

I'm a samplitude user, and I've been playing around with reaper a little as well. It does take a little while to get used to samplitude, but it's editing flexibility is quite amazing. Midi implementation (I'm using v8, so I can't speak to v9) is basic but pretty functional. I've gotten pretty fast with Samplitude, but it's taken a few years.

There are some things I really like about Reaper too. I started in vegas as well, and reaper's layout seems pretty similar, but with a lot more flexibility. I like the way it handles punch-ins versus samplitude, and I like that it's cross platform. And I'm surprised by the quality of the built-in plugins, they're quite good.

The nice thing about reaper is that the developer is very responsive. Got something you'd like to see done differently? Leave a message in the forum and you may see it in an upcoming build. The program is updated several times per week.

[JamesHE]

Great. I am happy to hear your perspective as a Samplitude user. I appreciate the thoughts on Reaper as well. Just because of the cost issue I might chose Reaper over Samplitude - for now.

Now hopefully some Pro toolers will come along that can compare it to Reaper or Sampltude.

Ahh! now I realize what this thread should have been more about for the sake of clarity!

What DAW platforms can you compare directly, and what are your feelings on each? If we could get a collection of peoples thoughts about different platforms they have used, it might be very helpful.

[madtho]

I've used Cubase>>Tracktion>>Live.

I'm still using Tracktion a bit because I'm quite used to it, but I'm making much more interesting music in Live. The online community for Live, though it stresses dance/electronic music, is fantastic, TONS of information.

It's pretty easy to get used to the Live way of doing things, and you can also use it in a pretty straightforward DAW manner.

-mad

[JWL]

you sort of write off cakewalk stuff. And if you're still thinking of Cakewalk Pro Audio from back in the DAW Stone Age, I can understand that.

Sonar 6 is pretty cool, though. You should at least give it a spin before you dismiss it.

[pipelineaudio]

I am a fellow vegas nut, but now a reaper user. I am quite biased by now, but I have used reaper in a number of professsional applications in lieu of the brands you would expect, because it fits my workflow better than anything else.

Give it a good try. It will open vegas files, so start from one you know

[CurtZHP]

I've used Vegas for years as well. I got in at version 3 and upgraded to version 5. I kicked around upgrading to version 7, but like you noticed, they've pretty much made it a video editor that happens to do audio.

But I think it happens to do audio very well, so I stuck with it. I kicked around getting Samplitude, and fooled around with a copy of Cubase a friend of mine had.

Then I tried SAWStudioLite. Loved it!

So now I basically use SAW and Vegas.

[JamesHE]

Give it a good try. It will open vegas files, so start from one you know

Man I didn't know that! Thanks!

[GooberNumber9]

I started using Vegas right when version 1.0 came out in 1999. I was an old Sound Forge user so it seemed natural. About a year ago, after getting every upgrade through version 4.0 and all the XFX packs and DVD architect and everything, i jumped over to Pro Tools. For me, it was like the clouds parting and sunlight streaming down. I found Pro Tools easier to user, MUCH more powerful, and better-sounding. I like the plug-ins that are available for Pro Tools better. I was very surprised at how much I thought Pro Tools just sounded better.

Now I am taking session back and forth to other studios and my mixing has really impoved. I know Pro Tools isn't for everyone, but I felt it was what Vegas was trying to be and failing.

Plus, if you ever DO jump to a Mac (which I did a couple weeks ago), you don't even have to buy anything at all to keep using Pro Tools.

Todd Wilcox

[inverseroom]

energyXT is king for MIDI, imho. More intuitive than Live, for my taste, and a great piano roll. Also, V2 (now in beta) has an AMAZING drum track that you can drag samples into.

Tracktion has become my audio tracker over the past few months, and I think it's excellent.

[bickle]

I haven't used a lot of these, but I'll second the Sonar recommendation. I started out on Vegas, too - maybe version 1? Then stuck w/ it through version 2, and stopped there for a long time, b/c I found it very intuitive, too. Started w/ Acid a little after, and liked it, though it wasn't too good for linear DAW work at the time...I also tried out Cakewalk PRo Audio and hated it; it seemed to me then like cubase still does now (ugly, inefficient and confusing).
But, about a year ago I ponied up for Sonar 5, and it's pretty awesome: It's got the same user-friendliness as Vegas, but much more advanced, very good midi implementation, great workflow, and I think it sounds a LOT better than Vegas did...definitely worth a shot.
I think they have a free demo...

[moosapotamus]

I started with cakewalk on pro audio 9 and made it as far as sonar 4. I think the work flow and features in sonar are great. But, I finally stopped upgrading because it's always been painful for me, like breaking in a new pair of hiking boots over and over again, lots of blistered toes and raw ankles until everything softens up and smooths out. I also finally realized that I've never gone more than a few months without encountering some major heartburn, dropouts out of nowhere, projects crashing the software, reinstall, reconfigure, bleah. So, now I'm done with it. I'm weening myself off of sonar.

I've tried n-track and audition, but have settled on tracktion. I don't feel like it needs a mixer. The interface is deceptively simple and very functional all at the same time. Everything you need is in the one main view. Works for me.

~ Charlie

[inverseroom]

Hey Charlie, I like your redesigned website...

[tubetapexfmr]

LIVE, LIVE, LIVE! Like you I have used many DAWs and all of them seemed to get in my way one way or another. (Digital Performer, Logic, Pro Tools, Acid, N-Track, Ardour, and Samplitude) Unlike these others, Live has everything you need. The only thing it doesn't have built in is a destructive sample editor (I use Bias Peak as my sample cutting and mastering program to complement Live). Live is great because its built-in plugs use very little horsepower and are quite useful. Version 6 comes with the essential instrument collection which kicks major ass and now with version 6 Live can do anything any other DAW can do AND MORE! Its greatest flexibility is that you can use it to record in the studio AND perform with it live. You can remix your songs on a whim and it has low graphic requirements so you don't get that common slowdown with a lot of tracks or plug-ins. It also makes the best of machines with moderate amounts aof RAM. I can't say enough good things for Live 6. Get it and don't look back.

Jesse

[moosapotamus]

Thanks, inverseroom.

I think it's interesting how emotional some people can be on this subject... what's yer DAW. But it makes sense. Anyone who has spent days pulling out their hair will agree... getting hardware and software to play nice together is no small feat. So when you finally do get it all working you feel like preaching from the mountain top... "follow me all ye brethren, for this is the way!"

fellow tracktion user...
~ Charlie