Hi,
I have about $400 to spend on some mics specifically for drums. I just bought an SM91. I have a 57, a 58, an MXL 603 and an MXL 991. I'm also going to get a pair of Fatheads. But I still have $400 more to spend. I have been considering the Shure 6 piece PG kit. I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with these in the studio. I'm open to suggestions and appreciate any feedback.
Thanks,
JM
DRUM Mics...under $400...Shure PG 6 piece kit?
If I had $400 to spend on drum mics, apart from getting lucky and finding something used I'd probably get this:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=271264
It's a CAD drum mic pack that has 4 TSM411 snare/tom mics. This is my favorite dynamic mic, I nearly always pick it over my SM57 in any application (esp drums and guitar amps). Great mic. The kick drum mic is so-so. Haven't tried the condensers.
Of course, the above is only $219, so with the remaining budget I'd either get a superior kick drum mic (I'd lean toward a Heil PR40), or I'd pick up 3 of these mics at $69 each, what a deal:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=270366
which are Large diaphragm condenser mics with variable patterns. I'd get 3 of them so I could do the Glyn Johns thing.
I'd probably lean toward that, all CAD mics (heh), the drum pack and the 3 big condensers. You should be able to get very good drum sounds with that setup.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=271264
It's a CAD drum mic pack that has 4 TSM411 snare/tom mics. This is my favorite dynamic mic, I nearly always pick it over my SM57 in any application (esp drums and guitar amps). Great mic. The kick drum mic is so-so. Haven't tried the condensers.
Of course, the above is only $219, so with the remaining budget I'd either get a superior kick drum mic (I'd lean toward a Heil PR40), or I'd pick up 3 of these mics at $69 each, what a deal:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=270366
which are Large diaphragm condenser mics with variable patterns. I'd get 3 of them so I could do the Glyn Johns thing.
I'd probably lean toward that, all CAD mics (heh), the drum pack and the 3 big condensers. You should be able to get very good drum sounds with that setup.
I don't have much experience with the PG's in the studio, but I recently did a live gig that I recorded using a couple of pieces of this kit (the PG52 and PG56).
I think they sound PG-- Pretty Good. I actually like the PG52 a little better then the Beta 52 (it didn't seem as pillowy), but YMMV. The 56 is pretty useful as well. You could do a lot worse than have a pile of them at your disposal...
But for $400-- unless you need the sheer number of mics the kit offers, you might do better with buying a more versatile mic like a 421/RE20/SM7/PR40. These would all kick ass on most things you'd put them on. Or maybe a used pair of AT4040's. There are a million combinations you could go for, I suppose.
Happy Hunting and keep us updated!
I think they sound PG-- Pretty Good. I actually like the PG52 a little better then the Beta 52 (it didn't seem as pillowy), but YMMV. The 56 is pretty useful as well. You could do a lot worse than have a pile of them at your disposal...
But for $400-- unless you need the sheer number of mics the kit offers, you might do better with buying a more versatile mic like a 421/RE20/SM7/PR40. These would all kick ass on most things you'd put them on. Or maybe a used pair of AT4040's. There are a million combinations you could go for, I suppose.
Happy Hunting and keep us updated!
You already have several mics that would work on drums so I'm not sure I'd go with a kit. You could get another 603 for under a hundred bucks and you'd have a pair of overheads. The 603 isn't too good for toms because it distorts at loud volumes.
For toms I use Audio-Technica Pro37 mics. These are a little over a hundred bucks each and they are terrific drum mics for the price.
For kick I use an Audix D6 that has made a huge difference for the better.
You could get another 603, a D6 and 2 Pro37 mics for under $400. You could use the 57 for snare and you'd have the bases covered pretty well.
For toms I use Audio-Technica Pro37 mics. These are a little over a hundred bucks each and they are terrific drum mics for the price.
For kick I use an Audix D6 that has made a huge difference for the better.
You could get another 603, a D6 and 2 Pro37 mics for under $400. You could use the 57 for snare and you'd have the bases covered pretty well.
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Professor
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Yeah, I agree that a kit doesn't seem like it would make sense, especially for a cheaper line of mics. If you were thinking of maybe the DMK-57/52 with the three '57s and the Beta 52, then at least you would be expanding in a better way. I'm sure the PG-57s and the PG-52 aren't too far off from the SM & Beta, but I've not heard anyone say the overheads in there are worth it.
I just did a quick look to see which MXL mics you have, and I saw that Musician's Friend has a two-pack of the MXL 990 large diaphragm with the 991 small dia. for $99. Picking up that will give you a mate to your 991, an LDC (which you don't have) and leave you $300 for a nice kick mic. A Beta 52a streets for $189 from the same guys, and that still leaves $110 for maybe another '57, or some other small dynamic from snares/toms, but that isn't so limited that it can't be used on more than just drums. So many of those drum kit-packs are like that. Or hell, you could get two of those MXL 990/991 packages, end up with three 991s (for overheads, toms, guitars, Glyn Johns stuff, or whatever) plus a pair of the large dia. MXL 990s, and still get the Beta 52 on the kick.
I'd definitely advocate for expanding on what you have... presuming you like the mics in the locker already.
-Jeremy
I just did a quick look to see which MXL mics you have, and I saw that Musician's Friend has a two-pack of the MXL 990 large diaphragm with the 991 small dia. for $99. Picking up that will give you a mate to your 991, an LDC (which you don't have) and leave you $300 for a nice kick mic. A Beta 52a streets for $189 from the same guys, and that still leaves $110 for maybe another '57, or some other small dynamic from snares/toms, but that isn't so limited that it can't be used on more than just drums. So many of those drum kit-packs are like that. Or hell, you could get two of those MXL 990/991 packages, end up with three 991s (for overheads, toms, guitars, Glyn Johns stuff, or whatever) plus a pair of the large dia. MXL 990s, and still get the Beta 52 on the kick.
I'd definitely advocate for expanding on what you have... presuming you like the mics in the locker already.
-Jeremy
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joelmoore
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Hey thanks everybody...all this input is great. I'm teaching myself how to get good(natural) drums and truth be told all of the possibilities can be rather overwhelming at times. I appreciate you all taking your time and being so generous with your opinions.
I neglected to mention that I actually do have three LDC's. I have the MXL 990/991 kit, the MXL 2001/603(mogami) kit and a single MXL 1006(same as the 2001 but beige and a little warmer). As mentioned I have the SM91, 57 and 58.
I was thinking that the Cascade Fatheads would do better as overheads than the 603 or the 991. So I hadn't thought to add another of each of those. But I'm going to assume that the Fatheads will get a more natural overall tone. Though I wont really know until I try them out.
The main reason that I was wondering about the PG kit was that I thought I'd close mic everything with the kit mics and use the others further away from the kit offering me more options in the mix. It hadn't occured to me to use the LDC's in close which is why I didn't mention them.
Anyway I was just thinking, hey I have 8 channels and a strong enough machine to capture 8 mics. Why not get as much variety and isolation as possible so I'l have more options later on in the process? Maybe I'm making a headache for myself, I don't know. At the time it seemed like a good way to get a more natural tone out of each individual piece of the drum kit.
As for all the suggestions:
The Audix D6 looks like a champ.
The 421, the RE20, the PR40 and the SM7 would all limit me to only one new mic( which may not be such a bad thing-somebody tell me why this isn't a bad thing) The RE20 is casting a spell on me.
The Glyn Johns approach...eh I'll try it out with what I have and let you know how it goes - I assume it wont go too well given my cabinets current quality range. I'd wager a guess that Glyn wasn't using an MXL 603/991 for Over's.
The MK012's look very interesting - I'm definitely going to test these out - anybody know where I could go to do this?
As for the CAD GXL3000, unless someone can give me a good enough reason not to I'm just going to go ahead and order one of those sight unseen based simply on the fact that it's $70 for a multi-pattern LDC w/ shockmount. It seems like a winner based on the reviews.
So in summary it seems that there is a definite consensus against the Shure PG drum mic kit. Sounds like the money would be better spent on mics that offer more versatility for future studio applications. And that in my price range there are many options. However, if I could sqeeze out an extra $200 I could get one or two superior mics(AT4040's) as opposed to 4-6 sufficient mics.
This board is awesome. Thanks guys.
I neglected to mention that I actually do have three LDC's. I have the MXL 990/991 kit, the MXL 2001/603(mogami) kit and a single MXL 1006(same as the 2001 but beige and a little warmer). As mentioned I have the SM91, 57 and 58.
I was thinking that the Cascade Fatheads would do better as overheads than the 603 or the 991. So I hadn't thought to add another of each of those. But I'm going to assume that the Fatheads will get a more natural overall tone. Though I wont really know until I try them out.
The main reason that I was wondering about the PG kit was that I thought I'd close mic everything with the kit mics and use the others further away from the kit offering me more options in the mix. It hadn't occured to me to use the LDC's in close which is why I didn't mention them.
Anyway I was just thinking, hey I have 8 channels and a strong enough machine to capture 8 mics. Why not get as much variety and isolation as possible so I'l have more options later on in the process? Maybe I'm making a headache for myself, I don't know. At the time it seemed like a good way to get a more natural tone out of each individual piece of the drum kit.
As for all the suggestions:
The Audix D6 looks like a champ.
The 421, the RE20, the PR40 and the SM7 would all limit me to only one new mic( which may not be such a bad thing-somebody tell me why this isn't a bad thing) The RE20 is casting a spell on me.
The Glyn Johns approach...eh I'll try it out with what I have and let you know how it goes - I assume it wont go too well given my cabinets current quality range. I'd wager a guess that Glyn wasn't using an MXL 603/991 for Over's.
The MK012's look very interesting - I'm definitely going to test these out - anybody know where I could go to do this?
As for the CAD GXL3000, unless someone can give me a good enough reason not to I'm just going to go ahead and order one of those sight unseen based simply on the fact that it's $70 for a multi-pattern LDC w/ shockmount. It seems like a winner based on the reviews.
So in summary it seems that there is a definite consensus against the Shure PG drum mic kit. Sounds like the money would be better spent on mics that offer more versatility for future studio applications. And that in my price range there are many options. However, if I could sqeeze out an extra $200 I could get one or two superior mics(AT4040's) as opposed to 4-6 sufficient mics.
This board is awesome. Thanks guys.
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curtiswyant
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logancircle
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You could do much worse. I have 2 of the PG drum miking kits (with the 2 condensers/overheads), one for my home studio and one at my band's practice space. Saying they're "pretty good" is pretty accurate. When I play musician friends stuff I've recorded their first reaction is Damn, you did that with these? Of course a lot of it is how you treat the drums and compress and PLAY and all that, but the PG kits are not bad at all.
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Studio and Field Recorder in NYC.
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Studio and Field Recorder in NYC.
I like dirt.
IG: stormydanielson
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Professor
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I know my approach isn't necessarily the best for everyone, but I like buying in pairs whenever I can manage it, and I never think of microphones as being purchased for any one specific instrument. Of course, I also have a pretty good equipment budget and I record a lot of different acoustic instruments in lots of different configurations and spaces.
That said, I think it's cool you're getting a pair of ribbons, but I wouldn't recommend thinking of those as your only drum overheads, and more than I would suggest that they only work as drum overheads. Personally I don't really ever put ribbons over any drumkits because I don't like what they do with cymbals - but that's just my taste. I do put them on toms whenever I can and have been known to stick 'em over a snare drum on occasion too.
Since you already have a couple of those MXL combo packs, I would still suggest you buy a mate for whichever is your favorite, whether the 990/991 or the 2001/603. Then you would have a pair of SDCs, a pair of LDCs and your pair of ribbons. You'd be ready for any kind of drumset that comes your way, and would be able to change tones easily and comfortably. Plus, those same three pairs will broaden your palette for acoustic guitar or any other acoustic instrument you might record, and for that matter any electric instrument too. (I know I've recorded guitar amps with stereo LDCs before... on several tracks just last week even.)
An RE-20 or an SM-7b would blow your budget. They are worth it, but probably not yet for you. I prefer them to dedicated kick mics (remember that thing about not buying for specific instruments) although I do have a couple "kick" mics. I have a couple Beta 52s, a couple RE-20s, and a couple SM-7s, and for low instruments and bass drums and such, I do move easily back and forth between them for different sounds. But there's no reason why you wouldn't be well served with a D-6, a Beta-52, a PG-52, or whatever strikes your fancy to get you started on the bottom, while still leaving room for other stuff that would be more useful.
-Jeremy
That said, I think it's cool you're getting a pair of ribbons, but I wouldn't recommend thinking of those as your only drum overheads, and more than I would suggest that they only work as drum overheads. Personally I don't really ever put ribbons over any drumkits because I don't like what they do with cymbals - but that's just my taste. I do put them on toms whenever I can and have been known to stick 'em over a snare drum on occasion too.
Since you already have a couple of those MXL combo packs, I would still suggest you buy a mate for whichever is your favorite, whether the 990/991 or the 2001/603. Then you would have a pair of SDCs, a pair of LDCs and your pair of ribbons. You'd be ready for any kind of drumset that comes your way, and would be able to change tones easily and comfortably. Plus, those same three pairs will broaden your palette for acoustic guitar or any other acoustic instrument you might record, and for that matter any electric instrument too. (I know I've recorded guitar amps with stereo LDCs before... on several tracks just last week even.)
An RE-20 or an SM-7b would blow your budget. They are worth it, but probably not yet for you. I prefer them to dedicated kick mics (remember that thing about not buying for specific instruments) although I do have a couple "kick" mics. I have a couple Beta 52s, a couple RE-20s, and a couple SM-7s, and for low instruments and bass drums and such, I do move easily back and forth between them for different sounds. But there's no reason why you wouldn't be well served with a D-6, a Beta-52, a PG-52, or whatever strikes your fancy to get you started on the bottom, while still leaving room for other stuff that would be more useful.
-Jeremy
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logancircle
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Definitely, and this should be applied to low-budget setups too. I have 2 of the PG kits at our practice space and that's all I used to record this http://www.geocities.com/digitizenature ... _vcdwn.mp3 for some 60's retro TV show (you may have to hit the link a couple times). I used the PG dynamics (meant for snare and toms) on all the guitar amps, a PG52 for bass amp, the PG condensers for room, mono drum OH and vocals. Budget recording is boss!Professor wrote:I never think of microphones as being purchased for any one specific instrument...
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Studio and Field Recorder in NYC.
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gutsofgold
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joelmoore
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At this point I'm leaning very heavily toward the D-6. I wonder though is there any difference besides the obvious between the black and the silver? The silver one is called the D-6 Sub Impulse Kick Microphone and the black one is just called the D-6. Am I missing something? Are these the same mic different color or different mics altogether?
I agree that it does make sense to go ahead and match up my 991. I've already bid on an auction in an attempt to save $40. We'll see. I really don't need another 990. I don't really care for the one I have. Problem is I don't like the 2001 or the 603 either. I do however find the 991 useful. If there is anybody out there that wants to let just the 991 go let me know. If I can find it by itself I will be much happier about spending money on it.
I'm now trying to decide on either a couple SM57's or AT 37's. I've never heard the 37's. No idea if they're worth the extra $40 ea. And there is a guy trying to sell a SP C1 to me for $140. This seems like a good deal. But I don't know how it will be useful for drums. Any thoughts on that?
With all this great advice I certainly feel more confident that I'm headed in the right direction. That direction being as far away from buyer's remorse as possible.
I agree that it does make sense to go ahead and match up my 991. I've already bid on an auction in an attempt to save $40. We'll see. I really don't need another 990. I don't really care for the one I have. Problem is I don't like the 2001 or the 603 either. I do however find the 991 useful. If there is anybody out there that wants to let just the 991 go let me know. If I can find it by itself I will be much happier about spending money on it.
I'm now trying to decide on either a couple SM57's or AT 37's. I've never heard the 37's. No idea if they're worth the extra $40 ea. And there is a guy trying to sell a SP C1 to me for $140. This seems like a good deal. But I don't know how it will be useful for drums. Any thoughts on that?
With all this great advice I certainly feel more confident that I'm headed in the right direction. That direction being as far away from buyer's remorse as possible.
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