Kick drum Mic Techniques

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rydberg
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Post by rydberg » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:39 am

mjau wrote:
rydberg wrote:So is talking about additive EQ verboten around here?
Not a bit...I just got the impression that the eq'ing you were suggesting was a hard and fast rule.
No blood, no foul, amigo.
:)
*high fives mjau* 8)

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palinilap
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Post by palinilap » Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:01 pm

It's not a mic technique or breakthrough by any means, but I recently used a Waves C4 multi-band compressor on an inside kick drum track just to squash the upper-mids and produce a more present, consistent "click." This was after already compressing the entire kick drum a fair amount.

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joninc
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Post by joninc » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:52 pm

i started getting a more distinct kick sound when i started using 2 mics. one farther in for more attack and one outside for the boom/low end.

i really like a LDC on the outside for the boom and a dynamic inside - i tend to use a atm 25 or D12 a lot for that.

it is fun to change it up and also it really depends on the role the drums play in the song.

i do find that it helps to carve out some of that muddy mids.

a compressor can add a lot to your kick sound too.

most of all i notice that good drummers sound the best - duh. but seriously i always spend more time monkeying around with drum tones when the drummer isn't as solid or doesn't know how to hit his drums or tune them. get a good drummer in and right away my job is 3 times easier.

what kind of music are you making?
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dirk_v
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Post by dirk_v » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:48 am

I like two heads on, damped to taste with blanket/pillow, or what have you, with a PR-40 an inch or two out of the hole on the reso head, aimed perpendicular to the drum. Last time I used this setup through a UA 110 and it sounded fab. Plenty of 'smack' from the beater, and tons of 'boom' from the chamber. As suggested above, give it a little boost in the 60-80 range, cut between 250 and 400 or so if you need to remove some boxiness, and boost 2k-5k if you need a little more slap. As always with drums, if you have a great-sounding kick-drum to begin with, you're most of the way to getting your sound.

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christiannokes
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Post by christiannokes » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:46 am

On a lot of different drum sessions I am doing, cutting around the area of 250-400 Hz. has been good for cleaning up a lot of the lows/low mids on the kick to my liking. So it definitely is worth trying the "two-fold" system of trying it and listening to see if you like what it does.

Not to say that doing that on every drummer that you record will magically work for you. You know...that old chestnut.

Also, maybe first try moving the drums around in your room(s), listening to how it sounds in different locations. Is it a good sounding kick drum? Does it have good heads? I know it is a pain in the ass to move shit around, but do you really want to learn something new about how to capture sound the way you want to capture sound or not?

Oh yeah, and if the drummer sucks, your job could be a little more difficult.

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floid
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Post by floid » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:01 pm

i've seen and heard of some weird/cool thinks done to kicks... dime taped to the beater, plywood panel mounted inside an inch from beater head (???? WHY ????), 3" strip of terrycloth towel stretched tight underneath beater head (i rather like this one), every type of object imaginable placed inside the drum (i use a small woolen sweater and the last pair of underwear i ever wore), reso head, ported reso head, shredded reso head, no reso head, huge comforter draped over reso head, second kick shell placed in front of reso head, amp w/ nothing input and reverb maxed in front of reso head...
and somehow, whenever you stick a mic somewhere nearby, they usually like a kick. okay, maybe a syphileptic kick on smack, but a kick nonetheless... two of the best drummers i've ever encountered had kicks that sounded absolutely horrid when i stomped on them, but when they played, it was beautiful - i.e. it sounded good in the context of their style.
the drum guy at the local music shop tunes all the kits there so the kick sounds like a basketball in an empty gymnasium - but when he plays live with his lounge act, he doesn't use a single mic and man is that one beautiful sounding set of drums
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barny15
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Post by barny15 » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:53 am

what i've done in the past with success is mic inside the port with any old dynamic mic (57), and then mic about 5-6 feet back with a condenser (usually a at4040 with the -10db pad on). the dynamic captures a good attack while the condenser captures the low end, and when it's said and done, i don't really even have to eq much at all. i've gotten a really cool kick drum sound that way, and will probably continue to mic my kick drum like this for quite some time.

so many things affect the kick drum sound though. the room, the heads (and tension), the pedal, the player...
Music production has really taken a dive. The only thing most modern "producers" know how to do is compress stuff to make it sound slick on the radio. Listen to a hard rock station. Notice how every song has the same guitar and drum sound? Sickening.

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joninc
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Post by joninc » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:13 pm

barny15 wrote: mic about 5-6 feet back with a condenser.
i don't really get this - are you building a bass tunel? if i pull the kick mic back 1 foot i get tons of the whole kit in it - at 5 feet it's basically a room mic. not trying to be snarky - just not sure how this technique can really be a kick mic - are you low passing it ?
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Post by barny15 » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:58 am

joninc wrote:
barny15 wrote: mic about 5-6 feet back with a condenser.
i don't really get this - are you building a bass tunel? if i pull the kick mic back 1 foot i get tons of the whole kit in it - at 5 feet it's basically a room mic. not trying to be snarky - just not sure how this technique can really be a kick mic - are you low passing it ?
oops! yeah, i forgot to mention that i usually build a drum tunnel with a cardboard box, although i've done it without a drum tunnel as well (as just a room mic but really close to the kick). either way works well for kick, but with the drum tunnel you of course get more isolation. i don't low pass. also, i record in a really small and dry sounding room, so even if i don't use a drum tunnel, the condenser still captures more kick than kit because i'm picking up a lot less room reverb.

i'm pretty positive that this technique is one of the oldest in the book, but i'm just sharing my experiences with it. :D
Music production has really taken a dive. The only thing most modern "producers" know how to do is compress stuff to make it sound slick on the radio. Listen to a hard rock station. Notice how every song has the same guitar and drum sound? Sickening.

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lastpicked4kickball
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Post by lastpicked4kickball » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:53 am

Well I printed this thread off so I could try a few of these ideas out, I'll probably skip the Sweater/Underwear idea, just so I don't freak anyone out, might not go over so well with folks not prepared for that sort of thing. I have the old blanket/pillow technique in effect already, and did the flip thing on the D-112. It worked out pretty well. I appreciate all the input from everyone, and careful with your panties guys, those things aren't cheap I hear.

-LP4KB
Just trying to get through life without looking stupid! Not workin' out so far for me...

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trodden
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Post by trodden » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:09 am

rydberg wrote:Wow. I've never seen so many panties wadded up so quickly. :wink: So is talking about additive EQ verboten around here? It's just a suggestion, after all. And aren't suggestions for starting points from a wide range of experience and opinions what this board is all about? OR do I need to stick to the talking points: "Move the mic." "It all depends on (fill in the blank)." "Steve Albini doesn't do that." :lol:

And no, I haven't heard note one of this song. But how do we know it's a "song"? It could be a free jazz group this person is recording. Or maybe he's making a sample library.
mjau wrote:
cgarges wrote:What is a 1/2 octave boost at around 2k?

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
Does this mean to make the q affect the 1/2 octave in either direction around 2k, possibly?
Yes and no. I meant 1/4 octave in either direction, hence a 1/2 octave boost.

Jeez. You guys are cranky. Whassa matter? :wink:


P.
yeah no shit people, we know you all are "pro" and stuff... do you need to prove it here at TOMB?

I've been two mic'ing it for awhile and seem to dig the results. usually either a re20, or a beta 52, or recently an e602 inside the drum. Some sweater/sweatshirt type dampening if needed on either or both front and back head. Then at 4047 about a foot out in front inside a "tent" build from guitar stands, a heavy IKEA rug (think "moving blanket" thickness") gaff taped to the front of the kick, supported tent/fort style with the guitar stands. There is a smaller opening at the back end of the "tent" to let some air escape.

I end up cleaning out alot of mid area out of the front mic and sometimes the inside the drum mic, depending on what mic used. anywhere between 200 and 500 hrz.

I use the pultec plug in to shape my bottom end as well, get it nice and "tight".

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Post by mjau » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:14 am

trodden wrote:I use the pultec plug in to shape my bottom end as well, get it nice and "tight".
Hell yes...the Pultec plug rocks on kick.

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trodden
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Post by trodden » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:19 am

blurry picture of drum tent in effect..

Image


different drums, different band (obviously) but what goes on underneath the drum tent..

Image

jckinnick
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Post by jckinnick » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:03 pm

Anybody know what the Glynn Johns three mic technique was again?

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Post by mjau » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:07 pm

jckinnick wrote:Anybody know what the Glynn Johns three mic technique was again?
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