Recording Direct Guitar without a pod or amp simulators

[tylernolan]

Ok. My setup is very basic. Generally I have been going straight in to my pedal chain through a slightly modded art tube mp preamp and then into a fotex digital 8 track. I am only recording guitars. No drums, no bass. I have a macbook that i can use to download freeware but have been having a hard time finding decent mac compatible stuff. Pedals include a boss overdrive/FUlltone cream Puff/POG/Volume/Boss Delay/Danelectro Reverse Delay/Wasabi Trem-Chorus. I know there are a lot of different methods using eq's, panning, doubling up. I am having a hard time seperating my tracks clearly and things turn to mud pretty fast. I know that trial and error is a big part of recording. I just wanted to stir up a discussion about direct guitar recording. I do not have a pod or any kind of amp sim pedals and maybe I should. What would you do to get the best recording with a setup like mine?-

[junkyardtodd]

You could probably bypass the tubemp, your fostex might have a low impedance input. What are you doing, some sorta My Bloody Valentine thing?
Anyways, the cheaper preamps and digital converters will impart a "sonic signature", such that one or two tracks sound good, but certain frequencies will begin to load up and sound poopie. I had that problem with my Fostex FD8
I would do everything possible to make the tracks sound really different, being extra careful not to use lots of distortions on every track. Try using more than one guitar, or at least vary the output and tone levels and pickup selectors if you only have one.
I have had good luck with my Johnson J Station and Sans Amp, but these devices sound better for cleaner sounds. Fuzz through the J Station goes to cheese really quickly.
Good luck!

[madtho]

You'll want to use a high pass filter and some subtractive EQ, different amounts of each on different tracks.

Your more rhythm parts will use a bit more of the low end and less of the highs, the lead parts will have very little low end to keep them out of the mud. There must be EQ in your Fostex, what model?

For the Mac you can track down luxonix multi-effect, it's VST, and fun. You probably have Garageband, that has some built-in EQ (minimal). I also found these VST's and/or AU's:
Lpgeq 2.1
NWEq
NyquistEq

Can you add VST or AU effects to your Fostex?
What are you planning on using for audio on your Macbook, because almost any audio program, DAW or 2 track editor, will have some built in EQ.

-mad

[kayagum]

I do not have a pod or any kind of amp sim pedals and maybe I should.

First of all, can your Fostex take INSTRUMENT inputs? If it's an older one, I doubt it. Your 1/4" input is probably set up for mic / line level only, with a trim pot.

What you need first and foremost is a direct box. By skipping that, you are feeding a very weak signal into something that's expecting more, you overcompensate by cranking your pedals, and it becomes a mess. A DI will make a HUGE difference.

Since you're using other pedals, you might be able to get away with a passive cheap DI, but investing in a good DI could help a lot. By good, I mean boxes like Radial, Countryman, Groove Tubes Ditto, Avalon. A good DI is a great investment. My life changed when I got a Ditto.

You don't necessarily need an amp sim, but it will probably make your sounds closer to what you're used to hearing. The 2 cases that I can think off the top of my head of DI guitars that work are (a) Husker Du, SST records era (think "New Day Rising"), and (b) a lot of Nashville session players can play their ultra-clean teles straight into DI. I also think the Billy Bragg Peel Sessions (circa Talking to the Taxman About Poetry) was direct- sounded great.

For my theater gigs, I've ended up using SansAmp boxes almost exclusively, although I've been touring using the Pod XT Live board because of a ton of switching. I've always have gotten compliments on the tone.

Most people think SansAmps are unusable, but it sounds best clean, with a good pedal compressor before it, and any distortion/OD should come from a dedicated pedal, not necessarily using the SansAmp itself to do the dirty work. Of course, it's even cooler with other instruments, but it can work for its original intended use.

Pods can work too. If you want a good example, check out XTC's album "Wasp Star"- Andy Partridge says that all of his guitars went through the Pod.

One more thing.... for whatever reason (maybe it's just me) I've always felt that distortion and fuzz survive the DI treatment better than overdrive.

[Rigsby]

I do not have a pod or any kind of amp sim pedals and maybe I should.

First of all, can your Fostex take INSTRUMENT inputs? If it's an older one, I doubt it. Your 1/4" input is probably set up for mic / line level only, with a trim pot.

I had a fostex DMT8-VL (still have it in a cupboard actually), the second hard-disc eight-track that Fostex brought out (1997 iirc) and that has two H/M/L inputs that you can use for mic/instrument/line. I think the first one (DMT) had them two. I did a lot of direct recording back then and the instrument inputs sounded sounded pretty good.

[kayagum]

I stand corrected. Thanks Rigsby!

[Wilkesin]

I've started to believe that a lot of pedals really degrades your signal (IC, cheap parts, and ones without true bypass [boss]), though you may not notice it as much when run through a nice amp, but suddenly your DI sounds like balls.

I dont have much to add to the above posters other than if you have a VST compatible host there is a pretty good sounding free amp sim here:

http://frettedsynth.asseca.com/