Control Surface - Good, Bad or Indifferent?

John Jeffers · Post by **John Jeffers** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:20 am

So I picked up one of them fancy-ass Mackie Control thingies yesterday. The brand new one, with all the lights and buttons. Mackie Control Universal Pro, it's called. It sure is purty, but I'm not sure it's actually going to help me do my job any better. And I'm damn sure not convinced that it's worth $1200.

I've been mixing with only keyboard and mouse for so long that I'm really quick at it. Having another input device was actually slowing me down yesterday. But I did notice something interesting...when I was working on the control surface, I was *listening* instead of *looking*. Being able to move physical faders and knobs without having to look at the screen was nice. But it is a drag having one more thing on the desktop taking up all that space.

So, for those of you who own or have used a control surface, what's your opinion? Is it worth it? Did it help you work faster/better once you got past the initial learning curve?

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:22 am

If you're running an LE system, it's a pointless waste of CPU power.

I'd rather have more plugins running than a control surface.

JASIII · Post by **JASIII** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:51 am

I passed on getting the mackie (mostly because of cost..wow!) and found a now-discontinued tascam us2400. it was a lot cheaper, had 24 faders without any extensions needed and ..it was a lot cheaper. I've found most "control surfaces" to be pretty plastic-y and toylike, I've just accepted it. Interfacing is not painless either.

Anyway... I do like it, and I do use it. i couldn't stand the thought of mousing around a screen all the time. However, I do not use it as much as I thought I would. sometimes it's just easier, faster or more exact to use a mouse. Am I getting $700 of value from the tascam? Yes. Would I feel it was a value to spend what a mackie costs? No.

BTW: I'm not sure about the mackie, but my surface doesn't draw any CPU....

bed eternity · Post by **bed eternity** » Sat May 05, 2007 3:28 pm

i use a bcf2000 with logic express. at first i thought it was the greatest thing.

then i began to find that i would always wind up having to change the automation curves with my mouse afterwards because something peaked too loud and i didnt turn it down in time. then when you go into the curves there way more comlplex than they need to be with a zillion points. now im leaning towards not even bothering with the control surface at all

of course there are alot of benefits youll have with the mackie over my behringer like labeling for what each fader is controlling, full transport control, and solo and record enable buttons.

however, for me it feels like right now it does more harm then help to my mixes.

of course everyone works different, so its up to you

GooberNumber9 · Post by **GooberNumber9** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:09 pm

I'm going to be the odd man out and say that I'd rather not ever mix without a surface. My favorite combination so far is the Control|24 with Pro Tools, but a good digital mixer that can also act as a control surface is a great thing to have in a studio. The Yamaha 01V96 did well for me on that front for a long time, then I went to the 002. I have a 003 on the way because it does a lot of control surface things that the 002 doesn't do (assigns, jog/shuttle, touch-sensitive rotary encoders, etc.)

Everybody's got their own tastes. I love control surfaces.

Todd Wilcox

Velcrocore · Post by **Velcrocore** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:18 pm

I got a BCF 2000 too. Using Sony Vegas. I was able to make pushing down on the 'pan knob' arm for recording. Having issues though. When I move the fader with the mouse, it loses sink with the physical fader. I have to wave the BCF's fader around to re-sync it.

At some point, I realized that if I hover the mouse pointer over different volumes and pans on the screen, I can role the scroll wheel to adjust them. I think it's almost more efficient than having a physical fader for each track.

vsr600 · Post by **vsr600** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:39 pm

I've got a BCF2k also and I use it a lot with Cubase but I'm about to start using protools and the the BCF won't work w/ Protools... so I'm thinking about getting the Mackie Control Universal. Is there really a $200 advantage to getting the "pro" version? B.t.w. for what it's worth the BCF is awesome for the price. If only it supported HUI.

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Sun May 06, 2007 1:18 am

I have a ProTools HD with Control|24 at work and it's great. I almost never use the keyboard.

At home I have a 002 with LE and I use the keyboard a bit more--primarily because the 002 doesn't have as much functionality as the C|24. I've thought of going to the 003 as one poster above said. But it is definitely nice to mix with faders instead of a mouse.

GooberNumber9 · Post by **GooberNumber9** » Sun May 06, 2007 6:45 pm

dwlb wrote:I have a ProTools HD with Control|24 at work and it's great. I almost never use the keyboard.

At home I have a 002 with LE and I use the keyboard a bit more--primarily because the 002 doesn't have as much functionality as the C|24. I've thought of going to the 003 as one poster above said. But it is definitely nice to mix with faders instead of a mouse.

The Control|24 is pretty sweet. I wish they had something in between $2200 for the 003 and $8000 for the Control|24, maybe something with around 16 faders on it. 8 is better than 0, but still too few.

If you are thinking of going PTLE, there is going to be no better control surface than the 003, in my opinion. The HUI protocols do some cool things, but once you've done plug-in flip mode you'll never want to live without it, and HUI doesn't do it. All the Digi surfaces do it. The things that separates the 003 from the 002 and Command|8 are really nice to have, especially plug-in and insert assigns. Now that you can do assigns without stopping transport, you can get crazy workflow going in PTLE 7.3 with a control surface that does assigns (which is something the HUI protocol does).

I think people who are really strapped for cash should at least get a Tranzport or Fader Port or something like that. Just having a dedicated transport control and a single touch-sensitive fader can make a big difference. I like having focus on a plug-in window and being able to start and stop transport from the surface without having to change focus. You can't do that with a keyboard (at least I've never figured out how).

Todd Wilcox

ludwig_van · Post by **ludwig_van** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:13 pm

I've used ProTools with the Control 24, and while I do use it for some things, I do most of my work with the mouse and keyboard and don't think I'd miss it much if it were gone. I definitely wouldn't want to spend a lot on one.

Disclaimer: I started out recording digital and have used computers for most of my life.

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:16 pm

ludwig_van wrote:Disclaimer: I started out recording digital and have used computers for most of my life.

That's the thing, I think. Most of the guys I know who love control surfaces grew up on analog consoles with faders, the ones who don't grew up mixing with a mouse. I have a buddy who bought a 002 and traded it for the rack version a couple of months later because he was so comfortable mixing with a mouse he never touched the faders. It's all about how you're used to working.

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:34 am

I started on computers with Cool Edit waaaaay back. I have really considered getting a control surface because I started mixing out of the box on some projects, if the track count was smaller etc., through my Tascam console. I could mix things much faster and the reason I responded to this thread is because of what you said about starting to listen more when you were using a fader. I totally agree. I thought it was an analog thing (even cheap 70's home studio analog) but maybe it's just the physical sensation of moving a fader. All I know is i have to make a big move on the screen to hear a difference, whereas with a real fader in my hand I can make very small adjustments and I start to hear the changes almost immediately.

lancebug · Post by **lancebug** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:42 am

vsr600 wrote:I've got a BCF2k also and I use it a lot with Cubase but I'm about to start using protools and the the BCF won't work w/ Protools... so I'm thinking about getting the Mackie Control Universal. Is there really a $200 advantage to getting the "pro" version? B.t.w. for what it's worth the BCF is awesome for the price. If only it supported HUI.

I have the BCF2000 and have definitely used it with PTLE. I thought it supported bhui mode.

beadgc23 · Post by **beadgc23** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:13 am

The BCF2000 supports both Mackie & Logic control modes - its done by holding down a key when powering up (check the manual) It's not that useful for writing automation as the faders are not touch sensitive, but there are workarounds.

I found the LC Xview app (OSX) very useful - gives you the Mackie Control display on-screen so you can see exactly what all those option/shift/control/left elbow keystrokes are doing.

Final vote for the BCF is 5/10...most useful live when controlling TotalMix (RME FF800) in the background while running Logic in the foreground.

vsr600 · Post by **vsr600** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:32 am

hmm I can't find in the manual where it says the BCF can be used as a HUI controller.... someone told me (a sweetwater rep at that) that with protools you could only use HUI interfaces and regular MIDI ones wouldn't work. Now that I think about it you're right that's nonsense... sorry

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Control Surface - Good, Bad or Indifferent?

Control Surface - Good, Bad or Indifferent?

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