former "drum ideas?". now: mix opinion?

[epic problem]

Hi all,
My wife and I play as a guitar/drum duo, and we're trekking up to a cottage in the wilderness in about a month to record an album. We've got a week there, and I'm planning on doing the drum tracks in the room pictured. I think it's really going to work to my advantage, as I'm hoping to capture a big/open/albini kind of sound.

I'm hoping to gain some opinions on how best I could mic the kit in this kind of a space - SDC or LDC for the overheads? Close mic'd or up as high as I can get them? (as it's a 24 foot cathedral ceiling). I know for sure that I'm going to want a room mic hanging out on the loft up at the ceiling.

I'm really only working with a few budget mics (SP B3, a V67, 603s, E602 for the kick, and an old AKG dynamic for the snare), and I've done some decent recordings with those in the past, but I'm not sure how to approach this kind of a space.

Idears?
Thanks in advance.

[Skipwave]

Wow, that's a beautiful space. I'd say move the drums around to different positions until they sound great in the room. Then walk around and find the best placement. You've got plenty of mics, but don't be afraid to go with a minimal setup or some odd placements, such as facing directional mics away from the kit or at the junction of the wall and floor behind the set (this last one has worked incredibly well for me with a bright sounding LDC). I usually set a pair of standard overheads, then use more or less or none of them depending on how the room sounds. I consider them my safety net to pull clarity out of the cymbals if the room mics are too boomy for the mix.

[drumsound]

In a room like that I'd go for closer OH to start. I's gonna be reflective, bright and probably splashy. Do you'll want some control over the OH sound. I'd put a bunch of rooms ics up, or move thoe ones I have around for different tunes.

Have Fun!

[Dan Phelps]

I definitely 2nd the opinion that you should mess with sticking some mics in odd places pointed strange things. Stick a mic in the chimney. Open up the doors and put a mic on the porch. Lay one on the ground on a pillow a few feet in front of the kick drum.

If you are going for a sparser guitar/drum thing then I imagine you can get away with using a few close mics (kick, snare, strereo/mono OH) as a safety and spend a lot of time looking for great room sounds that capture the whole set.

Looks like fun!
D

[Mane1234]

WOW!!! Can I rent that space for my next project??? Let us hear it after you're done...I'd try and borrow some omni's or some figure 8's.....Have fun...

[Regular Guy]

This looks amazing! Where is this room? I want to do this exact thing, I just don't know where to find a cottage or house that would be recording friendly (at a cost I could actually afford).

[epic problem]

Thanks so much for the thoughts, guys. I don't think I've ever been this excited to record something.

I really like the idea of having the mics semi-close to capture a lot of the detail, but getting some wacky room mics for character and giant room sound.

For the curious, the place is surrounded by wilderness (see? that's a lake about 500 metres away from the house) on the very tip of a peninsula, so I'm pretty confident that we can be as noisy as we want. We totally lucked out that we're going during low season, as it was nearly half the price of the busy months. The week also happens to be our second wedding anniversary, so it's going to be our first real vacation, and will be total recording and vegging beside the lake.

I will definitely post some clips here when the time comes!

[akg414]

Glyn John's - Glyn John's - Glyn John's (enhanced) method!!!

This method keeps the mics further away from the kit to capture BOTH the room and the sound of the kick AFTER it has developed a little bit - rather than capturing just the close-attack of the drum hits.

All you need is:

- one on the top (66 inches up off ground & 40 inches from the snare)
- one on the side (40 inches from snare)
- one in the front (about 40 inches from the front of the toms)
- kick & snare sweeteners!

Then I'd put two in a mid-side configuration in that other room far back against the wall. Then you can add these two in as needed. I think you'd get an incredible sound.

Post clips and let us know how you make out.

[manganeech]

- one on the top (66 inches up off ground & 40 inches from the snare)
- one on the side (40 inches from snare)
- one in the front (about 40 inches from the front of the toms)
- kick & snare sweeteners!

I'm with bradjacob on this. Mics three to six feet from the kit are probably going to give you more than enough room sound with all that glass and stone. Farther than that and you may lose the power and focus of the sound of your drums. I would think of longer distance mics as ambience/reverb that could be mixed in as an effect. You might regret having too much room sound in your core drum mics when it comes to mix down. Then again, if you find the perfect balance of sound you like while tracking, you may not need to mess with it in the mix.

Then I'd put two in a mid-side configuration in that other room far back against the wall. Then you can add these two in as needed. I think you'd get an incredible sound.

I'm curious why you would use a mid-side configuration from another room? My take on M-S is that the cardiod Mid mic picks up a more Direct sound, while the figure-8 Side mic captures more ambience. This allows you to blend direct and ambient sound in the mix and, after decoding, create a strong stereo image. I don't see how you would get any direct sound or stereo image if the M-S is set up in another room. I would think a single mic in the sweet spot of this other room would do the job as well or better. I'm just talking theory, I haven't tried this myself, so someone please let me know if I'm missing something.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

man that room looks amazing.

i would guess it's going to sound REALLY live. i bet it will sound really cool, unique and interesting, but still...you might wanna think about bringing a few sheets of 703 with you and placing those around the kit if need be. just a thought.

as for room mics, i like a pair of omni's on the floor, maybe 6 feet or so in front of the kit (i know i've typed that exact sentence like 8 million times on here already...apologies), gets the best ratio of drums to cymbals for me. but yeah, do try all sorts of wacky room mic business because YOU CAN.

and post some pics once you're there and all set up.

[epic problem]

I think you're spot on about the 703. I might just bring some heavy blankets to hang around the kit if it's too live for my liking. I think at least having something like that will give me the option to rope in the sound a little bit. I'm hoping for sort of a pseudo In Utero BIGASSROOM sound, at least for a few songs.

I love the idea of stereo omnis on the floor way out in front, but I'd have to borrow/steal/rent another decent one to do that. Though, that might be worth doing, just to have the option.

Damn. I was excited prior to this thread - I'm not sure how I can wait another month to get in there!

I will be sure to post pictures and sounds in about 5 weeks time

[Fletcher]

CARPET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You'll get much better control of the sounds with a good sized carpet [not just a "drum rug" but a good sized carpet] cutting down your reflections off the floor from like 1kHz up... you'll have fewer phase/short time reflection problems.

Looks like it could be a damn fun time!!

Best of luck with it!!!

[epic problem]

Yes, I just thought of that today, actually! First and foremost so that we don't scratch the shit out of the owners' floor with various drum whatnots, but secondly to keep the high hats from being too spikey.

We're bringing along one of those 4x6 woven grass mats, but maybe getting some scrap leftover carpet from a relative would be a good idea too.

Thanks again for the ideas, guys!

[Fletcher]

If you can find something that's like 10' x 20' I think that would be ideal... just move the furniture, throw down the carpet [if you can put carpet padding underneath it even better!!] and put the furniture back.

If you move all the furniture out of a room like that you'll be able to clock the RT-60 of the room with a sundial... which ain't what most people really want for every song on an album [maybe one or two... but that will also have a lot to do with your personal sense of aesthetic for your music].

Peace.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

I'm hoping for sort of a pseudo In Utero BIGASSROOM sound, at least for a few songs.

you are gonna have no problem in a room like that. your 'problem' is likely gonna be the opposite...it'll be too live. the thing with hanging blankets is how are you gonna do it? you can't be nailing 'em to the walls!

i bet you can get some really cool reverby vocals in there though....