My good friend came to me last night and expressed his desires to build a soundproof vault for recording guitars in his apartment. Doing a quick search, I'm not immediately finding any directions on how to build one, and am wondering if anyone here has had success building one, and if so would you share your plans for it?
He asked another question though, wondering if it would even be worth it to build the vault or rather buy a high-end amp modeling program. I'm thinking he should go with the vault, but I would like your opinion on this as well.
building an amp vault vs. modeling program
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bradfromtampa
- gettin' sounds
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- Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:27 pm
i haven't tried this at all, but it looked interesting...
it could be a solution.
http://www.amptone.com/diyisobox.htm
it could be a solution.
http://www.amptone.com/diyisobox.htm
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crow
- steve albini likes it
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Though I am way more into recording "real" things whenever possible (which is fortunately almost all of the time) in lieu of modeled or sampled sources, there are a several cons to the iso box idea:
1) it takes a lot of mass to make something soundproof, so it'll have to be pretty big. if your friend's in an apartment, it'll take up some valuable floorspace.
2) putting the amp in a little box eliminates a lot of what is rewarding about recording a real amp; namely, the ability to pull the mic back or add room mics. and the fun of standing in front of a cranked amp.
3) putting an amp in a small sealed airspace might mess with the sound of the cabinet. i've never tried it though, so i might just be superstitious here.
my advice would be that if your friend's style of music calls for a "slick" recording style (i don't know, modern rock, pop-punk, nu-metal, i'm being subjective here) then he'd save himself a lot of hassle by using a modeling program. a little investigation could even reveal that some of his heroes record with modeled sounds. he could also record direct with a modeled sound for starters, and take his files to a different space to re-amp a clean di version of his performances through a "proper" setup. convoluted, yes, but possible.
if he does build the box, i would advise putting only the speaker cabinet in the box. that would keep heat down inside the box and circumvent the hassle of having to open the whole setup any time he wants to adjust the sound. i often record guitarists with the head in the control room, with a long speaker cable running out to the cab in the other room. it's oh so convenient, and if the amp is a combo, i'll sometimes disconnect it from its speaker and use it as a head.
1) it takes a lot of mass to make something soundproof, so it'll have to be pretty big. if your friend's in an apartment, it'll take up some valuable floorspace.
2) putting the amp in a little box eliminates a lot of what is rewarding about recording a real amp; namely, the ability to pull the mic back or add room mics. and the fun of standing in front of a cranked amp.
3) putting an amp in a small sealed airspace might mess with the sound of the cabinet. i've never tried it though, so i might just be superstitious here.
my advice would be that if your friend's style of music calls for a "slick" recording style (i don't know, modern rock, pop-punk, nu-metal, i'm being subjective here) then he'd save himself a lot of hassle by using a modeling program. a little investigation could even reveal that some of his heroes record with modeled sounds. he could also record direct with a modeled sound for starters, and take his files to a different space to re-amp a clean di version of his performances through a "proper" setup. convoluted, yes, but possible.
if he does build the box, i would advise putting only the speaker cabinet in the box. that would keep heat down inside the box and circumvent the hassle of having to open the whole setup any time he wants to adjust the sound. i often record guitarists with the head in the control room, with a long speaker cable running out to the cab in the other room. it's oh so convenient, and if the amp is a combo, i'll sometimes disconnect it from its speaker and use it as a head.
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GooberNumber9
- tinnitus
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- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:52 am
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Having built one of these in the past, as well as tried several other ways to get good guitar tones in a quiet environment, I have finally settle down to this order of preference for dealing with this issue:
1) A normal tube amp, quality speaker simulator with speaker in and through jacks (the DMC Cab-Tone is my favorite), and a passive load box (like the THD HotPlate).
2) A good modelling amplifier/effects unit. I like the Vox Tonelab SE a lot, and the Fender Cyber-Twin is a nice unit. I haven't really liked the Line6 Pod or amps as much, but some people get good sounds out of them. Don't even think the "B" word. There are also lots of analog devices out there that can do the same thing in one box, like the THD Univalve and Bivalve amps, and the Tech 21 solid-state preamps.
3) A quality DI (Countryman, Radial J48 or JDI) and modelling software. I haven't done a lot of this, but I've gotten great results with software as simple as the Bomb Factory SansAmp PSA-1 plug-in.
4) An iso box.
Really an iso box is not on my list at all. It's too big, too much of a pain, and sounds too terrible to be worth it. Take the money that you would spend on building one of these and get a plug-in or a modelling device instead. You'll save yourself a lot of time, trouble, sweat, and sawdust, and you'll get a whole bunch of effects.
Todd Wilcox
1) A normal tube amp, quality speaker simulator with speaker in and through jacks (the DMC Cab-Tone is my favorite), and a passive load box (like the THD HotPlate).
2) A good modelling amplifier/effects unit. I like the Vox Tonelab SE a lot, and the Fender Cyber-Twin is a nice unit. I haven't really liked the Line6 Pod or amps as much, but some people get good sounds out of them. Don't even think the "B" word. There are also lots of analog devices out there that can do the same thing in one box, like the THD Univalve and Bivalve amps, and the Tech 21 solid-state preamps.
3) A quality DI (Countryman, Radial J48 or JDI) and modelling software. I haven't done a lot of this, but I've gotten great results with software as simple as the Bomb Factory SansAmp PSA-1 plug-in.
4) An iso box.
Really an iso box is not on my list at all. It's too big, too much of a pain, and sounds too terrible to be worth it. Take the money that you would spend on building one of these and get a plug-in or a modelling device instead. You'll save yourself a lot of time, trouble, sweat, and sawdust, and you'll get a whole bunch of effects.
Todd Wilcox
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RustyBrooks
- gettin' sounds
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- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:32 am
I built 2 isolation cabinets. One many many years ago in an apartment, and one fairly recently.
The old one was too small. I used a 10" speaker with it, and it was basically a rectangle about 15"x15"x40". I lined the inside with the kind of foam used for sound treatment in a studio (this was the most expensive part but not too bad). So I had that outter-box lined with foam and then an inner box which was basically just a small open-backed cabinet that was just wide enough to be held well in place by the foam (I'd jam it in there). I used a tiny little mic stand to position the mic, and so I'd have one mic cord coming out, and the input from my amp coming it. I put the whole thing in a closet about 25' from my recording space. It was by no means silent but it cut the sound down considerably. It sounded OK.
A more recent one is much larger. I could easily fit a combo in it but I still just put a little cab in it (cab for a single 12" speaker). It's big, it's heavy, it's also lined with foam. With my small cabinet in there I have about 2' between the front of the cab and the back wall. I can easily fit 2 mics in there. I use regular mic stands (well, they are "low profile" mic stands designed for use with a low amp) but I chopped the tubing down so that they fit in there (the mic boom does not extend as far as it did before chopping). It's larger and heavier so it's quieter and it sounds better. I think it sounds better than a modelled amp (I really only have experience with Guitar Rig, which actually can sound good if you spend enough time trying).
I almost alway, by the way, record a direct signal through a DI, and the miced signal, and I will often run the DI signal through guitar rig and blend the two together. I actually have two DIs, though I rarely use both. One can actually go between the amp and the speaker, so I get post-power-amp sound. If I really felt like working hard I could probably use both DI and mic the amp.
The old one was too small. I used a 10" speaker with it, and it was basically a rectangle about 15"x15"x40". I lined the inside with the kind of foam used for sound treatment in a studio (this was the most expensive part but not too bad). So I had that outter-box lined with foam and then an inner box which was basically just a small open-backed cabinet that was just wide enough to be held well in place by the foam (I'd jam it in there). I used a tiny little mic stand to position the mic, and so I'd have one mic cord coming out, and the input from my amp coming it. I put the whole thing in a closet about 25' from my recording space. It was by no means silent but it cut the sound down considerably. It sounded OK.
A more recent one is much larger. I could easily fit a combo in it but I still just put a little cab in it (cab for a single 12" speaker). It's big, it's heavy, it's also lined with foam. With my small cabinet in there I have about 2' between the front of the cab and the back wall. I can easily fit 2 mics in there. I use regular mic stands (well, they are "low profile" mic stands designed for use with a low amp) but I chopped the tubing down so that they fit in there (the mic boom does not extend as far as it did before chopping). It's larger and heavier so it's quieter and it sounds better. I think it sounds better than a modelled amp (I really only have experience with Guitar Rig, which actually can sound good if you spend enough time trying).
I almost alway, by the way, record a direct signal through a DI, and the miced signal, and I will often run the DI signal through guitar rig and blend the two together. I actually have two DIs, though I rarely use both. One can actually go between the amp and the speaker, so I get post-power-amp sound. If I really felt like working hard I could probably use both DI and mic the amp.
Modeler.
For all of the above reasons plus it's portable.
I personally would go for a standalone unit. That way, once you get used to it and come to depend on its sounds you can take it to gigs with (maybe) a powered speaker.
I prefer the V-Amp. Behringer gets some bad talk from what I've seen, but I did tests with an early Pod, the Vox thing, and a Korg and chose the V-amp for its variety (at that time it had the most individual amps and cabs) and its sound quality. The fact it was the cheapest was gravy.
For all of the above reasons plus it's portable.
I personally would go for a standalone unit. That way, once you get used to it and come to depend on its sounds you can take it to gigs with (maybe) a powered speaker.
I prefer the V-Amp. Behringer gets some bad talk from what I've seen, but I did tests with an early Pod, the Vox thing, and a Korg and chose the V-amp for its variety (at that time it had the most individual amps and cabs) and its sound quality. The fact it was the cheapest was gravy.
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inverseroom
- on a wing and a prayer
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Before you or your friend spend any money on anything, download this:
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/2426.html
Free Amp 2 is a freeware amp modeler that is really very good. Great GUI too. Development on it is very robust, and there will definitely be a 3. It's PC only, though, that might be a deal breaker.
My favorite hardware modeler is the Vox Tonelab.
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/2426.html
Free Amp 2 is a freeware amp modeler that is really very good. Great GUI too. Development on it is very robust, and there will definitely be a 3. It's PC only, though, that might be a deal breaker.
My favorite hardware modeler is the Vox Tonelab.
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rhythm ranch
- mixes from purgatory
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Modelers are certainly easier and offer more options, but if you go with an iso cabinet here are some links to previous threads:
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=42139
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=39274
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=39430
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=38302
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=20521
http://www.amptone.com/index.html#spkiboxes
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=42139
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=39274
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=39430
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=38302
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=20521
http://www.amptone.com/index.html#spkiboxes
In this situation I'd go with a modeler. I've tried the diy iso box (amp in a closet with a bunch of blankets) in the past and it was a royal PITA to set up and didn't sound that great. One huge advantage of the modeler IMO is the convenience factor of plugging in and hitting record while your inspiration is at its peak vs. spending an hour setting stuff up and getting it dialed in.
my band: Mission 5
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Jeff White
- ghost haunting audio students
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My trick, as it fits my gear and life-style: Radial X-Amp
I use Guitar Rig II to monitor and record my guitar tracks through a nice DI (Presonus MP20 modded with Burr-Brown op-amps). I print the direct signal to disk ALWAYS so that I can ReAmp later. I also print the GR2 track that I monitor off of, as a reference for the song.
Using the X-Amp, my Powerbook, my amps (Mesa-boggie DC-3 and Fender Pro JR), my mic preamps, and my mics, I plan a day to ReAmp where I can make noise. Either a Sunday at the office where I work, a friend's house, etc. The point is, my lack of space never gets in the way of my creativity. I simply make music now and ReAmp later. Sometimes I blend the amp and GR2.
Jeff
I use Guitar Rig II to monitor and record my guitar tracks through a nice DI (Presonus MP20 modded with Burr-Brown op-amps). I print the direct signal to disk ALWAYS so that I can ReAmp later. I also print the GR2 track that I monitor off of, as a reference for the song.
Using the X-Amp, my Powerbook, my amps (Mesa-boggie DC-3 and Fender Pro JR), my mic preamps, and my mics, I plan a day to ReAmp where I can make noise. Either a Sunday at the office where I work, a friend's house, etc. The point is, my lack of space never gets in the way of my creativity. I simply make music now and ReAmp later. Sometimes I blend the amp and GR2.
Jeff
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versuviusx
- re-cappin' neve
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