another "which mixer?" thread...

[pk]

getting into a new space, I can finally warrant the purchase of a board, albeit one in the pro-sumer or an "older-was once the bomb/cheap on ebay" type. The primary goal with all of it, somewhat in this order:

- have all instruments patched up and monitoring sans computer. Don't really record full bands, just me or 2-3 people at once, casual jams, etc..
- decent pres, so to hold off on buying external ones, as much as I'd like to have a bunch.
- mixing out-of-the-box? Never done it, but I'm ready to try it and probably will never go back as I've heard even on mediocre mixer, it makes a difference (separation, space, even in stems and back down to 2 into PT...)
- cause having a mixer is just fucking cool, knobs, faders and VU meters make me gitty.

The options at the moment:

- used Soundcraft 400B (16X4X2)
- used Soundcrat Spirit Studio (16X4X2)
- used Allen & Heath System 8 Mark III (24X8X2)
- new Allen & Heath Miz Wizard
- new Soundcraft M12


The only one of these I have actually heard in operation is the A&H System 8 (although it was an older Mark I, the brown one) and the pres sounded fantastic. Colored, thick, warm, but nice. The rest of them, this is where I could use some of your guidance. Thanks!

[lefuquaire]

hey whatever you get it will be an improvement from "mixing inside the box'
i was lucky enough to pick up an allen and heath saber desk from the 80's.. for $100! it's made all the difference in the world to my rig.. well, that and the apogee rossetta 800.. so now i run 16 channels through my board open up a new stereo track in protools, mute it, and take my main outputs from the allen and heath.. i have been pleased with the results so far..

[pk]

Hey thanks for the reply.
From the list of mixers above, It looks like the Soundcfaft 400B is a few days away from having a new home, and while I did search the board (and other forums as well), it seems to have a fair share of issues, perhaps normal for an old board like that ('83?), but things like unbalanced jacks, weird British 3-pin stuff (ie: TRS still being unbalanced), original power supply being a bit dodgy and buying a bigger, better one (ther term 'variac' came up?), oh, and it's apparently rather noisy, stuff like that. On the flip side, apparently the pres and eq's are great. So yeah, perhaps any used older board as such will have issues, no matter which one, but this one seems in great condition and relatively cheap, I'm tempted to just get it and make the most of it, even if just for tracking purposes for now. Any additional thoughts are welcome...

[Judas Jetski]

It's not on your list, but I absolutely love my Ramsa WR-S 4412. It's a 12 channel board but I think they made them all the way up to 24 channels. Mine was only a couple hundred bucks.

[vsr600]

I love my M12 and I'll probably keep it even though I'm about to get a full size console. It's got some great pre's on it and the routing is totally clean. Best yet, it's still under warrenty! My only gripe so far is the pres don't have a ton of headroom and will distort in a not so plesent way when driven. But that's what I have outboard pres for...

[creature.of.habit]

i had a 200b and a system 8. the allen&heath is really something...

[pk]

What was it about the system 8 that was so good? i'm curious as I was hoping the a&h would come through before all the others.

[creature.of.habit]

What was it about the system 8 that was so good? i'm curious as I was hoping the a&h would come through before all the others.

dont take my word for it, cause it depends on lots of things and it was a loooong time ago, but i really really liked the system 8, pres and all.

the 200b was a tad noisy and very clumbsy..that's what i remember the best...the 200b is huge and deep - you can't put the friggin thing anywhere, it's so deep and all square, the system 8 is huge and just right...i also think it sounded better, but you should really try both if you can...

a soundcraft 600 on the other hand...

[pk]

cool, but this is a Soundcraft 400B, which does look huge anyway! Not sure anymore, I might hold off on the 400B and wait and see of my A&H calles me back for the System 8 (again, I sort of wanted that one more to begin with, although 24chann is a bit overkill for my needs, but whatever...)

[creature.of.habit]

i hadnt noticed the system 8 was 24 channels...

that can be very unpractical if you dont need it yeah.. :/

400b is fine for sure...i just had a look at it..looks more like a 600 than a 200. ain't half as deep as the clumbsy 200 either...

go with that

[joel hamilton]

Soundcraft ghost.

The bunker is selling one.... talk to john about it...

[pk]

Hi Joel, how are you doing!

Yes I know about John's Ghost, and as much as I'd love to have it, it's way out of my range at the moment, looking at sub $1K stuff for now. I'm excited just to start working with a board for tracking and mixing (never owned a decent board in my life), even if it's not the best, one day I'll upgrade to something better. The soundcraft 400B has been purchased and on it's way here. I'm gitty. Thanks for the responses everyone...

ps: Joel, in a prior post about mixing outside PT, I remember you had mentioned that even on a mediocre board one would notice a difference and that you would prefer mixing that way vs. ITB any day. That comment resonates to this day and I can't wait to try that, even though my intent was mostly for tracking and having everything routed and ready to go.

[pk]

I finally plugged it in - weeks after having it in storage - and so far so good...so the VU meters don't light up but I suppose that's a rather easy bulb replacement job. More importantly, the 400B doesn't have actual monitor or control outputs for my KRK's, which I find a bit odd. For now I'm just going from the main mix outputs to the speakers, but then what are my options? There are 4 aux groups, would it be better to just use one of those as monitor outs? While I'm still not mixing through the board just yet, this method I'm using now seems ok, but when I do decide to mix OTB eventually, I may want to free up the main mix outs to go back into the 002R for the mixdown track, correct? Sorry for the elemental question, my first decent board, lots o' ins/outs/groups/buttons/pre-post/blah/etc....lol....still learning...

Thanks for any advice...