How much difference does Ram make (if any) for plug ins?

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Fri May 25, 2007 8:59 am

I have an older Dell P4 2.4, which I love. It's been solid as a rock for 5 years and I have no system issues at all. Problem is the newer plug in's take up way more processor power.

I can't afford to upgrade to a new computer right now and I realize that I have 512 ram out of possible 1 gig. So I could afford to get at least one 512 to go up to 768 or go straight up to two 512's. But how much of a difference can I expect to see. I just need a little bit more horsepower for plug ins. I freeze what I can but I do a lot of send/fx tracks, a few verbs etc. which can't be frozen.

I really don't deal with much midi at all, mainly just audio. Track count is never an issue, I just don't have quite enough processor power to run all the plugs I want and was wondering if Ram would help that at all?

thanks,
T-rex

cyantologist · Post by **cyantologist** » Fri May 25, 2007 9:06 am

what's the sample rate of the files you're working with? if you're working with 96k / 24 bit files it would make a huge difference in computer performance to record/mix at 44.1. i would say that with your current setup, you shouldn't be experiencing much trouble as long as you're not going overkill with the plugs. also you could think about buying a UAD-1 card to handle some of the load. (though i guess for that money you could afford a new motherboard/hard drive/memory) i dunno. i used to have the same dilemma until i realized that 44.1 was the way to go for me.

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Fri May 25, 2007 9:11 am

????∞?????∂?˙˚∆???≤???≈Ω???∞=????=9/=*???π???π?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

...or next to none. It's all about the processor.

cyantologist · Post by **cyantologist** » Fri May 25, 2007 9:36 am

@?,*???&? wrote:????∞?????∂?˙˚∆???≤???≈Ω???∞=????=9/=*???π???π?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

...or next to none. It's all about the processor.

point taken, however a 2.4ghz p4 should be adequate...

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Fri May 25, 2007 10:06 am

yeah I do the 44.1 24 bit thing. It's just that a few plugs that I really love are resource hogs, IR-1L for starters. I do a lot of sends and groups buses which is where most of the plugs are utilized, a couple verb's one short and one long along with a few vintage warmers, psp42 delay and Ren Comps etc. and it's starts to max out. If it's an insert, I can freeze it but most of these I can't. I could print the efx channel track to a new track, but I like to have a little more flexibility while I mix.

I guess I am feeling it a bit more now because I am using a lot more than normal to do some shaping on some stuff that was poorly recorded (refer back to the 3% thread).

thanks for the advice, that's pretty much what I thought.

ashcat_lt · Post by **ashcat_lt** » Fri May 25, 2007 9:08 pm

first, try doing this on a 66MHz 8 MB machine. that was fun*.

second, how optimized/specialized is this machine. have you got windows update, virus protection, screensavers taking up your ticks?

third, how many is enough? if a couple is 2 and a few is 3 i'm seeing 7. Your system should be able to handle this as is.

fourth, get more ram. can't hurt, and it's cheap.

and then, don't be afraid to commit. any drastic decision is at most a file import (and a mute) away from undoing.

edit (asterisk led nowhere)
* there was no such thing as a real time plugin unless you had protools on a mac with at least one card installed. the card was essentially the same (both in terms of cost and functionality) as adding a Quadraverb to your analog setup.

b3groover · Post by **b3groover** » Sat May 26, 2007 9:07 am

More RAM is always good, especially when you have a paltry 512mb. You should also find out if you can upgrade the processor, although simply getting a "faster" one will not make much of a difference. If you can get a chip that is not only faster but has more cache (ie, the RAM directly on the chip), that will help. More cache = more better.

jonnymo · Post by **jonnymo** » Sun May 27, 2007 11:58 am

Maximizing the RAM will definitely help, but you might need an upgraded CPU to beat the processor crunch. I upgraded a Dell Optiplex GX260 P4 2.0 GHZ to 3.2 GHZ through powerleap.com. (b3groover's point is well taken, I think my upgraded CPU had faster cache and FSB as well, though I don't remember the specs of either offhand.)

Do a Ctrl+Alt+Del and click on the Performance Tab in Windows Task Manager to see CPU usage while playing a track that you're having trouble with. I used to watch it peg at 100% on one of my plug-in heavy tracks with the 2.0GHZ processor, and then when I played the same track with the 3.2GHZ processor the CPU usage had dropped to ~75-80%.

I think it best to do both. However, you might also consider that I believe you're in the range of $300-400 by doing both, which only a few hundred short of a newer better Dell.

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:09 am

You know I never even thought about upgrading the processor? Hmmm. I can go up to a gig of memory pretty cheap so I may upgrade that just as a matter of course.

It is actually optimized for audio, no net, no anti-virus, nothing but the bare minimum. But I will say I found the problems. One, a new de-esser plug in I was trying was causing normalization problems. I have rarely ever seen that but read about it and it is particularly bad in the P4 N processors. It was really wierd though, it would look a normal load, like adding any other plug in. Then after starting and stopping the track, it would spike up. I even tried the Normalizer plug in from Digital Fishphones and it did not help. I went with the Fishphones de-esser instead and no problems. Secondly, I was demoing the Vintage Warmer 2 and the FAT switch is one hell of a resource hog. It sounds great, but damn. I am glad I demoed it. I love the Vintage Warmer and I can tell a nice difference with the FAT switch engaged, but damn. I can't afford to buy it until I upgrade my comp a bit.

Anyway thanks for the advice everyone! If I get some more Ram I will post back.

Phiz · Post by **Phiz** » Tue May 29, 2007 2:21 pm

T-rex wrote: It's just that a few plugs that I really love are resource hogs, IR-1L for starters.

The processing power required by a convolution plug in is heavily dependent on the size of the impulse response. So if you can reduce the duration, sampling rate, bit depth or number of channels in your impulse response, then you will see a substantial reduction in CPU usage.

GooberNumber9 · Post by **GooberNumber9** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:50 pm

Since RAM is so cheap these days, you might as well get up to at least 1 GB, or 2 GB if you can afford it. With that being said, I'm pretty sure the processor is the bottle neck when it comes to maximum numbers of plug-ins that you can run at once.

I can say from experience that the Core 2 Duo (core architecture) is a huge improvement over even a faster Pentium 4 (netburst architecture). The problem is you're looking at a whole new computer to upgrade from P4 to C2D.

Now, if you're thinking of replacing your computer soon, you probably don't want to upgrade the RAM on your old one, because you might not be able to move the RAM to your new computer.

Just on this note, if you can swing a 24" iMac you will love life. It is worth the money, if you have that much to spend.

Todd Wilcox

JASIII · Post by **JASIII** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:31 am

I've got a Dell with a 2.8 processor and 1 gig of Ram and it drops out and maxes the CPU constantly if I use more than a handful of plugins. And I have my PC maximized for recording (no screensavers, etc). I don't know what the cause is.....

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Thu May 31, 2007 7:33 am

Thanks for the tip Phiz!

Yes, well you know every new plug in seems to require a little more processor power. I recently started noticing it because I recently upgraded to some new plugs and whereas I have never had a problem before, I notice now that some of these newer plugs hit the CPU about twice as hard as some of my older plugs. Of course the newer one sound a bit better so that's the price you pay.

With that said, some plugs just cause craziness in the P4's. My friend who I collaborate with alot has an Athlon that isn't even as fast as mine but is way more efficient in the plug in department.

I think it's time to upgrade computers. Honestly, I am thinking of ordering a Duo core dell but stripping it of vista and loading xp. I can get 2 gig memory duo core 2.4 for about $900.

I promised my wife we would get a 20" I-mac for Christmas for our home computer. I would love to go Mac for my studio, but pricewise I will probably stick with PC for now.

Electricide · Post by **Electricide** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:32 am

if you have a P4...try turning off hyper threading. In the bios I think. See if it makes a diff.

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How much difference does Ram make (if any) for plug ins?

How much difference does Ram make (if any) for plug ins?

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