Tracking Cymbals / Dums Separately

ChrisNW · Post by **ChrisNW** » Thu May 31, 2007 4:15 pm

I've heard this is a technique used on the Queens of the Stone Age album, "Songs for the Deaf," and the drums do certainly sound quite unique on that record. I could see how it'd be pretty damn sweet to squash the hell out of a room mic without bringing up the hats. Has anyone here tried this? Please share details if yes.

inverseroom · Post by **inverseroom** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:37 pm

I do that, or I used to when I had drums. I now I just got drums again, and will do that again.

I mostly did it because, although I have pretty OK rhythm, I am a terrible drummer. So I track the traps to 4 mics and then the cymbals separately. For someone who actually plays the drums well, this would probably be a major mood killer, but it's great for me. And boy am I happy come mixing time.

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:53 pm

You can see Lars doing that on the Metallica documentary..

I say go for it if it helps you reach your goals..

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:06 pm

I think on the QOTSA record there was something soft where the cymbals go for Dave Grohl to hit. That way it felt like he was playing a normal set.

mingus2112 · Post by **mingus2112** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:20 pm

i recorded the loudest drummer i've ever had in my studio this past weekend. i damn sure wish i recorded cymbals separately because they're so god damn loud in the overheads! i have to rely on the close mics, which i don't normally do.

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:46 pm

I think I read that somebody was holding a towel so Dave could hit it like a ride or hihat. Sounds crazy, but no crazier than recording drums and cymbals separately.

Although I wouldn't want to be holding anything Dave Grohl was hitting. If he misses, ouch!

8th_note · Post by **8th_note** » Thu May 31, 2007 7:25 pm

I've developed a technique where I place the overheads close-in to capture the cymbals as much as possible to the exclusion of all else. I mic all the other drums separately so I don't depend on the overheads for the tom sounds or ambiance. I high-pass the overhead/cymbal tracks to isolate the cymbals further. I then use reverb on individual tracks or groups to get the room sound I want. This gives me a great deal of control over the drum sounds in mixing but it takes a lot of tracks, usually 8 per song, but even 10 or 11 on some occasions. Certainly not something Glyn Johns would do but it works for me.

FNM · Post by **FNM** » Thu May 31, 2007 7:35 pm

I think they did this on Rated R, and the newest one too.

akg414 · Post by **akg414** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:33 am

Here's a neat trick to try:

I call them "Under-Heads"

Using a side address micorphone (for example, a Neumann-U87 or AKG-414)...

1. Looking at the kit from the audience-perspective: try to place this mic centered in-between your cymbals.
(it can be right in the middle and [directly over the toms], OR - moved out 2-3 feet. Whatever works best)

2. Place the pick-up pattern in Figure-Eight.

3. Keep it level with cymbals (or drop it 1 foot lower and angle it, so it sort of "looks up" at the bottom of the cymbals).

Being that the pattern is in figure-eight, the capsules face hard left and hard right, they pick up a nice stereo image of the cymbals and it rejects the kick & toms.

Use a hi-pass filter on this track to remove any low end, compress to even things out and then wa-la! You can "dial-in" any amount of cymbal.

Here is an image to help illustrate my point:
http://www.bradjacob.com/images/cymbal_mic.bmp

Here is a clip of this very method in action:
http://www.bradjacob.com/secretsystem/m ... leaner.mp3

I hope this helps, as I've gotten FANTASTIC results!

Experiment by placing two mics & removing "overheads" alltogether. These will be "underheads". They capture the cymbal's sounds nice without a lot of engery-build-up or harsh overtones.

Remember to use the figure-eight pattern because it's one of THE best pattens for rejecting unwanted sounds.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:21 am

Brad,

It sounds like you're one step away from M/S micing. Read This thread for lots more info.

akg414 · Post by **akg414** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:27 am

drumsound wrote:Brad,

It sounds like you're one step away from M/S micing. Read This thread for lots more info.

Maybe one step away, but a bit different. This one-mic setup relies heavily on the rejection-factor of the figure-eight. And the way she's placed, filters out the kick and toms. It's really pretty cool.

permanent hearing damage · Post by **permanent hearing damage** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:08 pm

hmmmm... i hope this doesn't turn up twice, maybe i hit "preview" by accident.

anyway, as a drummer, i'd imagine tracking things this way would be a huge pain in the ass. the first pass through with towels instead of cymbals or whatever doesn't seem like it would be that hard, but the second pass of only cymbals seems like it would be difficult. i've doubled drums before for quiet stuff, but real loud/fast stuff seems like it would be difficult.

and nevermind the fact that the drummer has to spend twice as much time tracking. not that i'm saying it isn't interesting/unique sounding. but i would imagine most drummers would respond to this suggestion with a resounding "Fuck no" and i think they'd have to be a pretty good drummer to pull it off well.

johnmarkpainter · Post by **johnmarkpainter** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:34 pm

It isn't very Rock n Roll but it sure makes it easy to turn up the Room mics.
I've done it a lot (yes, with a good drummer).

jmp

Brett Siler · Post by **Brett Siler** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:12 pm

8th_note wrote:I've developed a technique where I place the overheads close-in to capture the cymbals as much as possible to the exclusion of all else. I mic all the other drums separately so I don't depend on the overheads for the tom sounds or ambiance. I high-pass the overhead/cymbal tracks to isolate the cymbals further. I then use reverb on individual tracks or groups to get the room sound I want. This gives me a great deal of control over the drum sounds in mixing but it takes a lot of tracks, usually 8 per song, but even 10 or 11 on some occasions. Certainly not something Glyn Johns would do but it works for me.

Next death metal album I record, I am trying this!

dirk_v · Post by **dirk_v** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:04 am

I must say I like the idea of tracking cymbals separately. One of my bandmates was working on a record at Chris Walla's studio earlier in the spring and said that they were planning on doing this to give them more control over the drum sound.

As for Brad's 'underhead' idea, I think it's good not only from the perspective of isolation, but also because I find that cymbals sound nicer mic'd on-axis than from above, which is part of my reasoning in using the Glyn Johns technique from time to time.

-dv

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Tracking Cymbals / Dums Separately

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