Recording a guitar amp

[liftyrfists]

Hello,
For some reason I just cannot seem to get a good recording of my electric guitar. I've mainly been recording viola, accordion, acoustic guitar with some oktava mc-012s which has produced very good results.

However, I have been trying to record my Kramer 650g through a reissue fender twin (which is alright, except I can't really fire up the tubes since it would need to be so fucking loud to do so) and pick it up with a pair of SM 57's. I know some people may well think that combination is the problem, but it's all i have for now...

In that case, every time I attempt to record the guitar always feels like the sound source is so far away. It never has that punch...does anyone have any recommendations? I've been putting the 57's about 8-10 inches apart at about a foot from the amp so they're pointing at the speakers...I know, very complicated

Is there an easy remedy or technique that someone has nailed down that could be made known to me...?

best,
jon

[Cyan421]

What kind of sound are you going for with the guitar?

I would think turning the amp up and bit and getting the mics in a bit closer would be good. I also don't see any reason to use two of the same mic, unless you have some ideas for stereo..... I like to mix an sm57 with an LDC like the AT 4050 on loud/heavy distorted rock guitars, gives a nice depth to it. If your using a compurter I would make the track stereo by recording two different passes with the same set up. with the LDC's panned wide and the 57's panned out about half. Again, likely good for heavy, loud, and distorted so it might not be the right technique for you.

[liftyrfists]

What kind of sound are you going for with the guitar?

I would think turning the amp up and bit and getting the mics in a bit closer would be good. I also don't see any reason to use two of the same mic, unless you have some ideas for stereo..... I like to mix an sm57 with an LDC like the AT 4050 on loud/heavy distorted rock guitars, gives a nice depth to it. If your using a compurter I would make the track stereo by recording two different passes with the same set up. with the LDC's panned wide and the 57's panned out about half. Again, likely good for heavy, loud, and distorted so it might not be the right technique for you.

It's an aluminum neck guitar, so that colors the sound quite a bit of course; kind of has a twang to it. It's actually great to use a glass slide on.

However, in this case I'm bowing it for a long drawn out distortion, so I'd like to really get all the contours of the noise-swell's texture.

I'm just using two so that it more accurately gets the sound; is it not always really necessary to mic a guitar amp in stereo?

[kayagum]

Try it with a single mic. Since you're using a pair a foot out, you may have some weird phasing issue going on. If the single mic sounds better, chalk it up to that phenomenon.

In fact, try close mic'ing the single SM57- very close or on the grill. Experiment with location.... even an inch can make a huge difference. Center, speaker edge, in between, angle the mic for off-axis if it's too bright, etc.

[JohnDavisNYC]

I am sure that you are experiencing a phase nightmare.... spaced dynamic carioids on a twin, which is probably on the floor... soooo... you have the signal from each speaker at each mic, plus the off axis sound from the other speaker, PLUS the wierd off axis reflections from the floor...

I would put on 57 dead center on one of the speakers and experiment with placement from there.

if you want to get the tubes cooking, you should look into A) a smaller amp, or B) a power soak for your twin, like a THD hotplate.

cheers,
john

[purple pie pete]

Great advice from everyone. If the 57 isn't doing it for you by itself, though, try using it along with mc-012. Make sure you pad the oktava, though. Put the capsules of the 2 mics right next to each other to avoid phase problems. Or mic each speaker with a different mic, and move the two mics around until they are either in phase, or the phasing creates a sound you like. Or put the Oktava much further away if you want some room sound.

[Recycled_Brains]

what's the reason you can't play loud? neighbors?

-ryan

[darjama]

You could try pulling half the power tubes out and see if that helps you get a more desirable tone at a lower volume.

Also, I'd try moving the amp up off the floor a bit to cut down on some of the reflections.

For distorted tones, I almost always prefer close micd and off axis. A lot of times the sm57 doesn't cut the mustard for me, and a ribbon or other dynamic mic get used. I'll use a condenser on distorted guitars if it's a part I really want to stand out.

[liftyrfists]

I am sure that you are experiencing a phase nightmare.... spaced dynamic carioids on a twin, which is probably on the floor... soooo... you have the signal from each speaker at each mic, plus the off axis sound from the other speaker, PLUS the wierd off axis reflections from the floor...

I would put on 57 dead center on one of the speakers and experiment with placement from there.

if you want to get the tubes cooking, you should look into A) a smaller amp, or B) a power soak for your twin, like a THD hotplate.

cheers,
john

Actually it's lifted up off the floor, so I don't have that working against me.

But yes, I've thought about getting a THD previously, since I've heard such good things about them. The twin is so loud; but I just don't want to get rid of it since it's in really great shape: might have to though.

And I can't play loud because of neighbors indeed...but to get a good sound from this big thing I'd have to be probably at 6-7 or something, right? That would be bothering stray cats several blocks out.

I think I'm going to try the 57 right up on it with perhaps the oktava elsewhere for a room sound. I've never tried stereo micing with different mics since the pair of oktava has really all I've ever used and has worked like a charm.

Thanks everyone for the responses! Very helpful indeed. Just to ask though, why exactly is the two 57's idea seem to cause so many problems? Just bad placement, or is that just a bad idea to begin with? I know the 57 is a...erhhm, a divisive issue , so perhaps that question will get too many emotionally laden answers!

cheers,
jon

[mjau]

Just to ask though, why exactly is the two 57's idea seem to cause so many problems? Just bad placement, or is that just a bad idea to begin with?

Any two mic's can be problematic in terms of phase relationship, and with the twin, you've also got the issue of two speakers pushing the same sound - so even with one mic a foot or two in front of the amp, you could get phase problems. I'd go with one mic right up on the grill of one speaker, and maybe that oktava quite a ways back in the room to get some ambience. Flip polarity on the room mic to see what plays nicer with the close mic.

[floid]

2 speakers times 2 mics equals 4 versions of the same sound, each arriving at slightly different times... aka phase problem deluxe.
you could try close micing front and back of one speaker (remember to flip polarity on the back mic) from equal distance. monitor in mono and move the back mic around until the amp's hiss sounds the same as in the room, should give you an in phase sound. you'd then have a set of bright and dark signals you can blend to taste

[vvv]

You could try pulling half the power tubes out and see if that helps you get a more desirable tone at a lower volume.

Be carefull doing this! I mean, the idea is you take one from each pair, ex., on my Boogie I need to take the two outside tubes, or the two inside tubes.

If you do it a lot, remember to swap the tubes you are using to try and keep the hours close.

[Jeff White]

Again, already mentioned, but for emphasis... One mic, placed to taste, record two passes, pan to taste. "Stereo". I would even a) experiment with two different mics up close and still record two passes (as in two performances) b) experiment with one mic up close for one pass and move it around the cone for a second sound on another pass (watch phase), c) experiment with one close and one for the room.

However, regarding the room in the situation... if the amp is not loud, how will the room mic(s) benefit the overall sound of the recording? How does the room sound by itself when you clap or play through the amp?

Jeff

[liftyrfists]

Again, already mentioned, but for emphasis... One mic, placed to taste, record two passes, pan to taste. "Stereo". I would even a) experiment with two different mics up close and still record two passes (as in two performances) b) experiment with one mic up close for one pass and move it around the cone for a second sound on another pass (watch phase), c) experiment with one close and one for the room.

However, regarding the room in the situation... if the amp is not loud, how will the room mic(s) benefit the overall sound of the recording? How does the room sound by itself when you clap or play through the amp?

Jeff

The room is pretty dead really; very little room sound. It's just my bed room in a co-op; basically a dorm room. So the sound is absorbed by...well...stuff that's in a room! Haha. So almost no natural reverb, unfortunately, I feel like it adds very little, if anything, to the recording...

And I only have access to the 57's and the oktava mc-012, which is a small diaphram condenser mic. The oktava's aren't great for the amp either, but do a decent job. I have a cardioid and an omni available; which should I use and where should I put it for the second mic in this case? It might be nice if I could get a good room sound, but like I said, the room doesn't have all that much to offer...

[darjama]

I remember reading here that some have had good luck taping an omni to the side of the amp for a PZM-style sound. could be useful and/or interesting.