So true for so many instruments.japmn wrote:
If the room doesn't sound good, the cello probably won't either.
recording cello?
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Re: recording cello?
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Not a lot of mention of micing near the f hole...
I've never even tried micing the bridge. I've only recorded cello a few times and usually with pretty unremarkable mics. The session yesterday had an AKG c3000 about 12inches out from the f hole (which, when I put my head down there was the best sounding place) and a CAD e200 in omni about 4 feet out front and 4 feet off the ground. Both mics into Neve Portico pres and RME converters.
We got some really great sounds.
I've never even tried micing the bridge. I've only recorded cello a few times and usually with pretty unremarkable mics. The session yesterday had an AKG c3000 about 12inches out from the f hole (which, when I put my head down there was the best sounding place) and a CAD e200 in omni about 4 feet out front and 4 feet off the ground. Both mics into Neve Portico pres and RME converters.
We got some really great sounds.
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When that happens, I reach for my ALBINI-GONE in the handy spray bottle. (and hey your sig is "there are no rules")joninc wrote:steve albini was on my shoulder saying "a 57 isn't a mic - it's a paper weight"
You want Beatle-esque? According to the Recording The Beatles book, they used a KM-54 or KM-56 placed close to the f-holes on Eleanor Rigby.
"If he knew the part, he'd play it."
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A couple of times I have used Sen 421 inbetween the bridge and f-hole, and it always worked well live. The last time I did this show I recorded it, and I became more convinced that it was the right mic when I droped the track into my studio monitors, and it required no EQing at all.
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Because you mentioned the Beatles and cello recording, I looked up the television broadcast of "All You Need Is Love" and searched desperately for a microphone in the two shots of the cellos. And after about 5 passes, I finally found it! It's hard to see because of YouTube quality, and it's mostly out of frame. I took a screenshot and outlined it for your edification, but I don't have anywhere to post it right now. Follow the link below and have fun finding it for yourself!
You'll notice its placement between two cellos, nearer the bottom of the body. This favors a solid midrange and low-end, since this is where those frequencies originate. The cello, like most all nuanced acoustic instruments, has a complex acoustic radiation pattern, and it is difficult to capture this all with close-micing/pickups etc. Hence, you can see that a good compromise here was to have two cellos relatively near to one microphone! It's like the sound of one cello from both the A-string and C-string sides, ensuring good body, with all the attendant properties of being close-mic'ed and doubled. This primarily translates into an enhancement of the bow/string sound, which many string players (I play the cello) refer to as "the halloween crunch" or "junk." But one man's crunch is a record producer's bubblegum.
Here's the video for reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLxTpsIVzzo
I recommend listening to the Yellow Submarine mix, however, to get an idea of the solidity of the low end on the cellos, particularly as they play the descending passage out of the introduction, just before Paul's bass takes over.
You'll see how he's placed four violins around one microphone, instead of putting them all behind one or more mics. I think the principle is the same as above. Basically, a single microphone gets to hear an instrument from four different angles! Here's an idea, if you can't get a string section together for recording: overdub the same instrument as many times as you wish, but from different angles in relation to the microphone. This is a technique I've used before when using stereo micing techniques. The disadvantage being, of course, the buildup of noise, electrical and environmental.
You'll notice its placement between two cellos, nearer the bottom of the body. This favors a solid midrange and low-end, since this is where those frequencies originate. The cello, like most all nuanced acoustic instruments, has a complex acoustic radiation pattern, and it is difficult to capture this all with close-micing/pickups etc. Hence, you can see that a good compromise here was to have two cellos relatively near to one microphone! It's like the sound of one cello from both the A-string and C-string sides, ensuring good body, with all the attendant properties of being close-mic'ed and doubled. This primarily translates into an enhancement of the bow/string sound, which many string players (I play the cello) refer to as "the halloween crunch" or "junk." But one man's crunch is a record producer's bubblegum.
Here's the video for reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLxTpsIVzzo
I recommend listening to the Yellow Submarine mix, however, to get an idea of the solidity of the low end on the cellos, particularly as they play the descending passage out of the introduction, just before Paul's bass takes over.
You'll see how he's placed four violins around one microphone, instead of putting them all behind one or more mics. I think the principle is the same as above. Basically, a single microphone gets to hear an instrument from four different angles! Here's an idea, if you can't get a string section together for recording: overdub the same instrument as many times as you wish, but from different angles in relation to the microphone. This is a technique I've used before when using stereo micing techniques. The disadvantage being, of course, the buildup of noise, electrical and environmental.
ethical action gets the good.
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Wow....rulesforradicals wrote:...and a (ahem) Behringer B1 up close to the bridge.
I thought I was the only one that was going to have to come in here and admit that I LOVED the cello sounds I got with my B1.
Don't get me wrong, I really don't like that mic for much of anything, but I'll be damned if it didn't get some of the best Cello I've ever recorded.
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I almost never mic a stringed instrument (vioin, viola, cello) any closer than 2-3 feet away. Depending on the room, sometimes even 4-6 feet away. Those instruments sound more balanced to me with the mic a little further away and you get some of the natural room sound too. You will need a quiet pre-amp since you may have to turn it up but even with a little noise, it's worth it. I've had great luck with a U-195 and/or a U-95 into a vintage Neve 1073 (definitely not the quietest pre-amp), no EQ or compression. FWIW, I've also been loving my Chameleon Labs TS-1 on viola and violin.
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I've been recording a two different solo cellists in the last couple months for audition purposes using the nady RSM-2 about 3 feet back from the f-hole and angled at about 20 degrees back. I really love the sound I'm getting (very dry, but full deep lows and a smooth midrange and tailored highs.) It's dry, but the lows resonate just enough so it's not unbareably dry.
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Agreed. I think this is why some people think you should use a dynamic on the cello (which still sounds odd to me) - a condenser too close to any bowed stringed instrument will sound scratchy and bright. Back up a bit, let the room resonate, and give the sound space to bloom.Shawn1272 wrote:I almost never mic a stringed instrument (vioin, viola, cello) any closer than 2-3 feet away.
"Music is an oversimplification of the situation we are in." - John Cage
Cool, glad to know I'm not the only period-instrument geek around here. (Well, not really since college, but back in the day I played recorder, baroque oboe, harpsichord....) Josquin is hard, but good stuff!Zygomorph wrote:That is me. And the extent to which I play the viol is probably pretty well summed up by the expression on my face. Josquin is hard!matyas wrote:Nice viola da gamba avatar, Zygomorph. Do you play?
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Hi Everyone...
just found your thread here.
I wrote this one evening about my experiences recording cellos.
I haven't read it in awhile...hope it can be helpful.
http://web.mac.com/anthonyleerogers/iWe ... rding.html
this should take you right there....
or you can navigate to it via:
http://www.stringtracking.com
hope it is helpful.
http://www.stringtracking.com
just found your thread here.
I wrote this one evening about my experiences recording cellos.
I haven't read it in awhile...hope it can be helpful.
http://web.mac.com/anthonyleerogers/iWe ... rding.html
this should take you right there....
or you can navigate to it via:
http://www.stringtracking.com
hope it is helpful.
http://www.stringtracking.com
Good observations. And especially good point about the lack of comfort many classically-trained musicians have with headphones. I've had string (and woodwind) players ask me to conduct while tracking, even though there was click in the cans!stringtracking wrote:
http://web.mac.com/anthonyleerogers/iWe ... rding.html
this should take you right there....
"Music is an oversimplification of the situation we are in." - John Cage
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