Ultimate Studio Drum Kit?

ChrisCo · Post by **ChrisCo** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:57 pm

I love my Tama Starclassic kit... Maple shells with the a lacquer finish. They're nice and loud, but they sing out so nicely. I recommend them, but I'm sure we're going for two different types of tones...

I had a Rogers kit (from the 70s I think) at some point, and those sounded great too! I think the kits I am generally unexcited about are Pearl high-end kits. They're just so dull sounding. I think DWs are pretty balanced-sounding, they've got a very "controlled" sound.

Maybe it'd help to know the types of wood and how everything affects the sounds of the drums. Do some google research on the following topics...

maple wood
birch wood
mahogany wood
"jasper" wood

Plys/layers
Bearing edges
reinforcement rings
Lugs
Mounts
"Virgin" drums

Also, not only are the shells important to your sound, but also the heads:

1-ply heads
2-ply heads
"Controlled Sound" heads
coated heads vs clear heads
"Fiberskyns"
Bottom head resonance vs top head...

Reading all of these things will probably (I can't make any promises) give you a good idea of what to listen for in a store when comparing one type of drum quality to another. I liked the Starclassics because the shells are thin and ring out nicely when struck. But also, the lacquer finish has something to do with that because it's not wrapped with a sheet of plastic with a color like the "wrapped" shells do. When you play them, you can hear the difference. So you'll know to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:32 am

Jonkan wrote:I can only agree with dokushoka...Rogers drums from the 60s are so amazingly good sounding and well built that you cant go wrong.

One thing I can say about the older Rogers kits is that the good ones tend to be REALLY good, but there are some real dogs out there. When I think about older (script logo) Rogers drums, this always comes to mind.

I think the suggestions are all pretty good. Of course, I'm a Noble & Cooley freak and I think there are no better-built, easier to tune modern drums on the planet. (The Odery drums from Brazil are really close.) I've had a Noble & Cooley kit for about 11 years now and I can't ever see myself not owning one of those kits. Drumsound's suggestions about what makes his Gretsch drums sound good also apply to the Noble & Cooleys and to most modern-sounding drums that I like. The same applies to mid nineties Slingerland Studio King drums, which to me were the closest thing on the market to vintage Gretschs at the time.

I also dig old Gretsch drums from the 60s (something about gumwood, reversed bearing edges, and and lack of air vents that just works for me), but it's also hard to deny the rock lineage that Ludwig has thrust upon the world.

I've never really been stunned by any Pearl kits. In the mid nineties, they made some nice entry-level drums and I've played lots of Pearl snare drums that I liked, but never really heard any of those kits in person that blew me away.

Ayotte made smartly-built drums that sounded good, but had terrible, terrible problems in terms of quality control and durability. Plus, Ray Ayotte is a man with questionable morals in my opinion (from a personal experience), so I would never spend any more of my money on a company with which he's associated.

There are lots of great drums out there... in general, Yamahas, Tama Star Classics, Sonors, and Gretschs have consistently impressed me. DWs never really have.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

dokushoka · Post by **dokushoka** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:27 pm

One thing I can say about the older Rogers kits is that the good ones tend to be REALLY good, but there are some real dogs out there.

Great point, Chris. I've experienced this a few times when I ran into other early kits that were similar to mind but they just sounded barely OK at best...

percussion boy · Post by **percussion boy** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:10 pm

drumsound wrote: I have a Gretsch americal maple that sounds fantastic. There are a couple cool things including die cast rims, no reinforcing rings, hand rubbed laquer and only 5 lugs instead of 6 on the smaller drums that I think contribute to the tone. I can tune them high or low, muffel them or leave them wide open and always get useful tones even when the drummer behind them is "less than perfect..."

+1

Personally, I would look for some used Gretsches made up through, say, the early 90s. Currently, the Gretsch badge is being attached to all kinds of strange objects. The used ones are not that expensive (unless you go all the way back to the round badge 60s stuff, which isn't necessary).

Make sure the drum shells are round. Shells with that egg-shaped warpage will never tune right.

scottiedoo · Post by **scottiedoo** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:21 pm

there's like a 3 year period between like 1969 and about 1972 where ludwig made drums the same as they did in the 60's "keystone" era (shell construction) only they put better hardware (spurs especially), blue & olive badges and a clear finish on the inside of the shells instead of white paint... these are the ones.... 3 ply shells w/ clear maple interiors... find 'em and you'll be a believer... I swear to god these are better than any of your DW's ayotte's or whatever the kids are playing these days.. (I'm 24 BTW) just stay away from the 70's ludwigs when they switched to the thick shells w/ no reinforcement rings... those are less than amazing... I have a '67 keystone set but dont like the hardware very much.. so I don't gig w/ it or anything... just record & practice. here she is:

I want one of those early 70's kits sooo bad though... my dad's got a set maybe I'll inherit someday....

inverseroom · Post by **inverseroom** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:43 pm

That's a sweet looking kit.

ckeene · Post by **ckeene** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:32 am

Pretty kit, man. I'm not up on dates of when exactly Ludwig did what, but I do have a silver sparkle Keystone-badge kit from 4/68 that does have the 3-ply clear interior. So I guess they were doing the clear lacquer before the badge change.

My other Ludwig kit is this guy, from '74

And it has the 3-ply shells with the "Granitone" crap inside it.

scottiedoo wrote:there's like a 3 year period between like 1969 and about 1972 where ludwig made drums the same as they did in the 60's "keystone" era (shell construction) only they put better hardware (spurs especially), blue & olive badges and a clear finish on the inside of the shells instead of white paint... these are the ones.... 3 ply shells w/ clear maple interiors... find 'em and you'll be a believer... I swear to god these are better than any of your DW's ayotte's or whatever the kids are playing these days.. (I'm 24 BTW) just stay away from the 70's ludwigs when they switched to the thick shells w/ no reinforcement rings... those are less than amazing... I have a '67 keystone set but dont like the hardware very much.. so I don't gig w/ it or anything... just record & practice. here she is:

I want one of those early 70's kits sooo bad though... my dad's got a set maybe I'll inherit someday....

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:06 am

Lot of good suggestions here. Since you specified that you like musical sounding toms and not the modern attack sound, I would probably look at some vintage drums. Gretsch comes to mind, although it can be hard to find a set of gretsch toms in round so be careful, but they rule for versatility. Tune em low and you can get a nice rock sound, crank em up and get a nice jazzy tone, just great all around. I had a set that I sold because tuning them was a nightmare but I still regret it.

Also, C&C Custom drums is Kansas are really amazing. A lot of emo bands are into these BUT, he custom makes them and you can specify either modern sounding toms or vintage sounding toms with more of a round tone and less attack. He cuts the bearing edges like the old gretsch if I am not mistaken. I have seen several bands with these live and they sound amazing.

Also, I have played the drums at Studio G and being a big fan of cobbled together drum sets, even I was amazed at how good they sounded - cause they looked jacked up!!! I am not even going to say what brand the toms were. . .

Mike S · Post by **Mike S** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:15 am

I just picked up a Yamaha Recording Custom for the studio and an all maple DDrum kit as well, plus a kit for gigs (time when I fill in) DW. It's all in the wrists!

mc437 · Post by **mc437** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:03 am

Round badge Gretsch all the way. Here is my 1953 Gretsch kit in white marine pearl. 3-ply maple shells that resonate for days.

jc_terrones · Post by **jc_terrones** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:41 am

Mike S wrote:I just picked up a Yamaha Recording Custom for the studio and an all maple DDrum kit as well, plus a kit for gigs (time when I fill in) DW. It's all in the wrists!

I second the Yamaha recording customs, or is it third, fourth by now? The toms sound absolutely amazing. I once had 6 of the toms.

You never realize how over rated DW drum sets are until you see Ross Garfield shake his head at a session when he saw my drummer had a new set of DWs.

Slider · Post by **Slider** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:27 am

mc437 wrote:Round badge Gretsch all the way. Here is my 1953 Gretsch kit in white marine pearl. 3-ply maple shells that resonate for days.

NICE!

spankenstein · Post by **spankenstein** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:02 pm

Don't give up on your kit yet. I picked up one of the little Gretsch Catalina Club kits. It's the small kit with the 18" kick. I chose this one because a) I don't play drums seriously, b) it was just at $400 and c) it looks cool as hell. The drummer I've been playing with has a custom KC Drumworks kit that sounds amazing so if I needed something great sounding that was available.

Fortunately this little Gretsch kit rocks. I've been able to tune it to almost any sound I needed. Right now I'm working on something and have everything tuned really low and dead and it's just about exactly what is in my head. I can tune it high and get the toms to really sing.

As mentioned before, changing snares and cymbals will go a long way in making a kit feel completely different. If I were spending money on drums I'd get a much deeper snare, a shimmery ride and crash and I'd get a 26" kick. Between the kit I have and those pieces I feel like I could get any sound that I really needed.

Sean Sullivan · Post by **Sean Sullivan** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:25 am

I used a Yamaha Stage Custom for a year and a half and LOVED the tom sounds..I think smaller drums sound bigger when recording (which is way Catalina Clubs are popular around here) but I never liked the snare. I recently won a Ludwig Fab Four Classic Maple kit on eBay...I only bid $750 but somehow that was enough for it and I was close enough to pick them up so I saved on shipping too! It's a much better overall kit, but I don't think it's 3 or 4 times better then the Stage Custom...it looks a heck of a lot cooler though! I would highly recommend a Stage Custom, you can get a used shell pack form $300-$400 used.

inverseroom · Post by **inverseroom** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:53 am

spankenstein wrote:Don't give up on your kit yet. I picked up one of the little Gretsch Catalina Club kits. It's the small kit with the 18" kick. I chose this one because a) I don't play drums seriously, b) it was just at $400 and c) it looks cool as hell. The drummer I've been playing with has a custom KC Drumworks kit that sounds amazing so if I needed something great sounding that was available.

Fortunately this little Gretsch kit rocks. I've been able to tune it to almost any sound I needed. Right now I'm working on something and have everything tuned really low and dead and it's just about exactly what is in my head. I can tune it high and get the toms to really sing.

As mentioned before, changing snares and cymbals will go a long way in making a kit feel completely different. If I were spending money on drums I'd get a much deeper snare, a shimmery ride and crash and I'd get a 26" kick. Between the kit I have and those pieces I feel like I could get any sound that I really needed.

I was a hair's breadth from buying those a couple of months back, but ended up getting these old Premiers from AndySmash. I love the Premiers! But the Gretsches were very nice for the money.

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