Chopping a Hammond M3

uniquebassplayer · Post by **uniquebassplayer** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:52 pm

Anybody here have any experience with this? Know where I can get some info on it?

It seems like it would be pretty straight forward as far as sawing goes but what about electronics? I don't know much about electronics. Is it very complex in that regard? Should I attempt to tackle this myself?

Freakmagnet451 · Post by **Freakmagnet451** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:59 pm

Google is your friend!!

http://www.folkswaggin.com/Hammond/frameview.htm

http://www.pigboatrecording.com/hammond.html

http://www.myplanet.net/x77dude/moving.html

http://www.keyboardpartner.de/hammond/t-mod-skill5.htm

I don't think it takes any special skills, just common sense and planning. If you are going to move it, you gotta chop it!!

uniquebassplayer · Post by **uniquebassplayer** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:46 am

Thanks Freakmagnet.

I actually did see a few of those sites before I posted on here, but I wanted to know if anyone had any actual hands-on experience with this. I figured if I could hear some first hand stories of how the process works I could get a feel for what I'd be getting myself into.

funkydiplomat · Post by **funkydiplomat** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:56 am

I don't know much about electronics. Is it very complex in that regard?

All of the amp and psu electronics are in the bottom of it along with the pedal electronics. If you chop the top, you'll have to reconnect the wiring harness to it somehow. and then think of a clever way to move it around, connect it and disconnect it. maybe a Multi-pin with signal & PSU stuff that connects to the chassis that's now in a road case?? The power "start / run" switch for the tone wheel is also on the front panel underneath also. You'll have to relocate it.

The B3 is actually easier because all of the electronics are upstairs with the tonewheel. chopping an m3 is a bad idea in my opinion. I thought about it with mine. I just ended up buying an appliance dolly and strapping it to that when I wanted to move it. We used to go on the road with it. I was real into at the time. 'you're not as crazy as we are. we brought a hammond!'. But the charm wears off. It's a real hassle. And 95% of mofo's don't care what kind of keyboard you have up there anyway.

uniquebassplayer · Post by **uniquebassplayer** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:13 pm

funkydiplomat wrote:
I don't know much about electronics. Is it very complex in that regard?
All of the amp and psu electronics are in the bottom of it along with the pedal electronics. If you chop the top, you'll have to reconnect the wiring harness to it somehow. and then think of a clever way to move it around, connect it and disconnect it. maybe a Multi-pin with signal & PSU stuff that connects to the chassis that's now in a road case?? The power "start / run" switch for the tone wheel is also on the front panel underneath also. You'll have to relocate it.

The B3 is actually easier because all of the electronics are upstairs with the tonewheel. chopping an m3 is a bad idea in my opinion. I thought about it with mine. I just ended up buying an appliance dolly and strapping it to that when I wanted to move it. We used to go on the road with it. I was real into at the time. 'you're not as crazy as we are. we brought a hammond!'. But the charm wears off. It's a real hassle. And 95% of mofo's don't care what kind of keyboard you have up there anyway.

Thanks for your feedback.

It seemed to me that a B3 would be easier and you're right that most people wouldn't care what keyboard I'm playing on stage. I totally agree with you there, but this is something that I do want to do. I've been playing my M3 in my living room for a few years now and have always wanted to use it with the band. The problem is that I have absolutely no way of transporting it. It's just too big and heavy and I don't want to deal with it. Thing is, I just got another one off of craigslist for free with the idea that I would chop it and use that live from time to time.

So here is what I'm thinking, tell me what you think:

Once I chop it I'm going to mount the amp and psu to the top of the tonewheel. I'll relocate the power switches to the little blank spot to the right of the lower manual. The part I'm sort of stuck on is how to get it hooked to a speaker again once I seperate it.

I mean I haven't really looked in there yet but the internal speaker on the organ is hardwired to the amp, right? Can I simply solder a 1/4" female jack to the end of that wire where the speaker was? Then I can just plug into an external speaker cabinet, which I may use the old internal speaker to build. Live I can just mic that.

Also, I've read that some guys relocate their volume pedal to a pot controlled by the drawbar that controls the bass pedals. Of course this is in cases where they choose to ditch the bass pedals when they chop it. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to do that or hook up some sort of connector that will allow me to still use them. I'm leaning towards keeping them. I'll probably build a small seperate plywood box to house them. In that case then I will just put the volume pot to the lower right with the power switches.[/i]

funkydiplomat · Post by **funkydiplomat** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:41 pm

regarding the speaker or other output....

there is a rca jack on the top of the chassis which is in place, I believe, so one can play along with a tape/record/cd through the stock speaker. This point works fine as an output driving a hi-z guitar amp input. We used a twin with ours. It worked great.

I added a 120V AC power inlet and a 1/4" output on the side of the wooden case so there wouldn't be cords hanging everywhere when we went to move it.

I would worry about:

A) space. you always need more than you think you do when you tackle this type stuff. The tonewheel is/should be suspended by springs to shockmount it. I don't think there is a good way to make the amp chassis fit on top of it. You MAYBE could mount it upside down, screwed into the top like a fender amp. I don't know if that curved piece will hold the chassis. And you'll still need to get to the tonewheel to oil it.

B) having the mains transformer near the tone wheel. If you can cram it in there, it may hum some... Then again the motor is right next to it (part of it?). The motor may be shielded though, I can't remember.

You can disable the internal speaker by removing it and the 6v6's, but the power supply voltage will change for the rest of the tubes.

At one time, I had schematics for mine. I'll look around and try to find 'em. Keep looking on the internet. There's info somewhere on making that input work better as an output. good luck.

uniquebassplayer · Post by **uniquebassplayer** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:51 pm

Thank you so much for the info. I would appreciate the schematics if you've got them handy but I will look on the net also.

regarding the speaker or other output....

there is a rca jack on the top of the chassis which is in place, I believe, so one can play along with a tape/record/cd through the stock speaker. This point works fine as an output driving a hi-z guitar amp input. We used a twin with ours. It worked great.

That's what I was wondering about before. Just so I'm clear, you had to mod this to turn it into an output, or you just left it as was and used an rca to 1/4" cable to feed the twin? Because what you're saying about using an external amp is exactly what I want to do.

You can disable the internal speaker by removing it and the 6v6's, but the power supply voltage will change for the rest of the tubes.

So in this case would I have to swap out the transformer for one that would match up with the now different voltage that the amp is looking for? If so, I wonder if instead I can create some sort of dumby load device that I could just hook up so the amp is seeing the resistance it wants and leave the 6v6's in there.

I think you can tell, (and this goes back to my original post about not knowing too much about electronics), I want to try and avoid extensive electrical modifications if at all possible. I understand that there very well may be some level of that which is unavoidable. In that case I'll bring in someone else who will not kill themselves via electricution or damage the organ in the process.

Thanks again for the info. It's a great help.

paully · Post by **paully** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:46 pm

The schematic can be found here http://www.captain-foldback.com/ . Click on 'Hammond' at the bottom, then click on 'schematics'. Good luck.. you're gonna need it.

BTW, if your M3 has a field coil speaker, you'll have to do some mods there also. It was recently covered in this forum.

Best, Paul

uniquebassplayer · Post by **uniquebassplayer** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:38 pm

Thanks! This is yet another example of why I think this forum is the tops.

Your well wishes make me a bit nervous though.[/list]

lanxe · Post by **lanxe** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:25 pm

wow, i am doing the same exact thing as you.

I have two M3's so i decided to chop one of them. I mounted the amp to top of the organ just above the tone wheel gen. as far as wiring goes, i just labeled all the wires as i cut them.....if you look closely at the amp you will see little letters at each wire connection. i just wrote those down. re-solder and you are good.

I will put in a 1/4" jack where the speaker was wired so that i may play through a guitar cab or whatever i have. i would not run the organ without a speaker connected though. the speaker that was in mine was a jensen P12Q

I now want to fabricate some legs or some kind of stand. i am still thinking about this one. The organ is definitely easier to move. my girlfriend and i could barely get them moved, but now that its chopped down, its quite a bit lighter and more importantly its not as bulky (ie easier to carry or dolly).

I think it is a good idea, especially if you already have two (just like me!). i dont think it is an extremely difficult project if you take your time and think about it.

i would like to see pictures of how you did yours. i can post mine as well.

Ryan

hondro1025 · Post by **hondro1025** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:16 am

I chopped my m3 a couple years ago. It was a fun project and the results were cool. I put the amp up in the top shelf and made the cut right below the tg. You'll have to monkey around with the swell capacitor to get it to sound right. The huge problem I had with it is the balance. You definitely need some sort of support system. I was using cement blocks and was worried the whole thing was gonna tip over on me. I highly recommend using a direct box or something with a 40db attenuation because the speaker signal is hot as hell. I'll give you any advice as this is a project that needs a lot of research before you go through with it.

lanxe · Post by **lanxe** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:32 pm

hondro1025 wrote:I chopped my m3 a couple years ago. It was a fun project and the results were cool. I put the amp up in the top shelf and made the cut right below the tg. You'll have to monkey around with the swell capacitor to get it to sound right. The huge problem I had with it is the balance. You definitely need some sort of support system. I was using cement blocks and was worried the whole thing was gonna tip over on me. I highly recommend using a direct box or something with a 40db attenuation because the speaker signal is hot as hell. I'll give you any advice as this is a project that needs a lot of research before you go through with it.

cool. i know that it has been done, but to find any documentation or pictures on the web is kind of hard (M3 specific).

Do you have any pictures of your chop?

hondro1025 · Post by **hondro1025** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:51 pm

I'm sorry bud, I don't. The organ is in New York and I'm in Boston. If I make it out there soon, I'll snap some off and post them. The thing looks really ghetto...a real road animal.

kernel_panic · Post by **kernel_panic** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:24 pm

Interesting reading on how many M3 players are looking to chop it to Gig with. I'll post up my "mods" that I have done for the past few months of gig work.
We still haul the whole "pig" with us, but I made it a bit easier with some 3/4" plywood for a base, some good 2" casters, some 2 1/2" ball casters (for the front legs) a couple pieces of 1X4 to make bracers for the front legs and fastened it to the bottom of it (yeah I know it added weight, but at least it's free-wheelin now)

to aid with the moving and lifting I just picked up some "bathtub assist rails" from your local hardware shoppe and mounted them on either side (also makes a good "rack" for percussion toys, extra cables, and drink holders

)

I also picked up the 1/4" tap-out kit from speakeasyvintagemusic.com and removed the speaker from the inside and connected out from the speaker-out (careful, that's one HOT lead)

I've been talking to the lads in the band about chopping it for a while, but in reading up on all the hassles with rewiring and such, not to mention the real estate in hauling really doesn't matter horizontally, I decided not to.

Now my question is this.

If running a tap-out to a tube-powered leslie, or even a guitar/keyboard amp, couldn't you effectively take the amp out of the picture by running from the expression pedal straight to the tap-out?

If I still had another M3 to play with I'd try her out, but I'm only on a 2-week break between gigs and don't want to find myself organless

b3groover · Post by **b3groover** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:14 am

Unless you're going for a certain look, it's sort of a waste of time to chop a tonewheel organ these days. The Hammond XK3 or XK1, while digital, are absolutely fantastic sounding instruments and under 40lbs. Put them through a real Leslie and there's the sound.

Even after chopping, the damn thing will be heavy. I hauled my B3 around for almost 10 years before getting the full XK System. It looks great on stage (all wood) but only weighs 125lbs and breaks into three 40 lbs pieces. You can't beat it.

Considering the time and effort, it would be more cost effective to just buy the XK1 or XK3 or even the Nord Electro.

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