Alright, I'm done with Cassette

aghaller8 · Post by **aghaller8** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:30 am

I've been looking at upgrading my Tascam 488 MKII for awhile, and now the XLR input crapped out, and this kinda seals it. I'm done. I've been looking at Akai dps, Roland VS, or I might even consider staying with cassette if there's an upgrade from the 488 that I don't know of, I enjoy the portability.

Any suggestions?

Fear I'm not savvy enough for reel to reel, even though I'd probably like the tone. Going for character over cleanliness, like newer Waits, sparklehorse, Giant Sand, Nebraska... In no way adverse to HISS.

Thanks fellas

kayagum · Post by **kayagum** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:12 am

You may want to consider a Tascam 238 or 688.

With the 238, you will need a separate board to go with it, but you may really like the combination. Your 488 tapes may even play on it. The 238s is the Dolby S version (I own one, and I love it), but you may want the original dbx version so you can use your 488 tapes on it, if you use it.

The 688 has its own board and you can sync MIDI to it, if that's your cup of tea.

Even though an Alesis HD24 is not the most portable setup (I'd say it's transportable in a rack case), I still prefer it to any all-in-one recorder, both for quality and reliability.

drumsound · Post by **drumsound** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:51 am

The Tascam 388 1/4" 8-track with built in mixer gets a lot of love around here.

RYCLEA · Post by **RYCLEA** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:38 am

The sooner you are done with cassettes the better. Sound character comes from your songs, your voice, your performance, your instruments, mikes and room far more than the recording medium. There is nothing to be gained by using cassettes. If you really miss tape hiss, I'm sure somebody makes a plug-in for it.

When I got away from tape, I looked at a number of standalone DAW before deciding on a laptop with ProTools, but I still miss having a little portable multi-tracker. The Roland VS recorders have a higher learning curve, but they produce great recordings, they save to common formats and there are plug-ins available. I avoid anything by Beringer or Zoom, because their stuff is poorly built (which is too bad because a lot of it is really musician friendly) All of the digital recorders sound great, just make sure you have enough XLR inputs and insist that the salesperson lets you play with it before you buy anything. Plan on about two hours in the store to read the manuals.

That said, it's nice to keep an old 4tk around for mastering.

inverseroom · Post by **inverseroom** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:07 pm

I recorded for years on an Akai DPS16...very handy, good-sounding unit. Now I use Tracktion on a laptop and it is 100 times better. And I now have put an old RTR from Craigslist on two output channels of my interface, and I can send any mono or stereo track out and back in instantly for a little saturated lovin'.

But the Akai worked great for a long time.

Knights Who Say Neve · Post by **Knights Who Say Neve** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:30 pm

I miss tape, but a laptop, an emu 1616m and Reaper is what I usually use now. The dps16 is a good "no hassle" unit, but honestly you're better off just learning how to deal with computer recording.

"Character" is mostly a function of what you put in front of the digital input. (Better to get it there than to use plug-ins. Trust me on that). If you're doing bands you'll need a compressors/limiters in front of any digital input anyway, since digital isn't forgiving of levels the way cassette is. So that's a good place to get your drums smacky, your vocals slightly overdriven or whatever you want.

Moon Unit · Post by **Moon Unit** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:19 pm

I know what ya mean.

I'm sick and tired of sending messages via morse code. And I think it's high time I get me one of those fancy things called telephones.

I'm also thinking of trading in my kerosein lantern. Anyone know of any good sources for an electric light? It has to be close enough to where I live, since I don't own one of those gas-powered buggy things.

Rolsen · Post by **Rolsen** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:29 pm

I have very little experience with computer-based recording, but I have a Korg D1200 that has helped me produce some pretty good sounding stuff.

More of a question than a comment: for someone moving 'up' from cassette - and lets pretend that a budget will be a primary concern - isn't setting yourself up with a computer-based system way more expensive than plucking down a $1000 for a stand-alone DAW that has 16 track playback, 4-track simultaneous recording ability, etc.? Most folks, either tape, computer or box-DAW get external pres and stuff.

Computer-based is superior in so many ways like ease-of-editing, plug-in selection, but that comes with a price in dollars, right?

dsw · Post by **dsw** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:24 pm

Computer based is indeed far superior to the little boxes for ease of use (providing you RTFM and do everything the way they want you to...) and can be very cost effective. What can cost more is 8 ins at once. M box Mini comes with Pro Tools for $299 but has only one mic in, 2 ins total.
003 Rack has 4 mic in 8 analog in (plus digital in 10 more) for $1195, includes the software. Presonus Firepod is on sale for $400 right now and it has 8 mic preamps and comes with a lame version of Cubase.
Just make sure you have a nice big fast computer!! Processor speed is very important to this kind of recording.

inverseroom · Post by **inverseroom** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:51 pm

Most new computers are more than fast enough for running many tracks of audio at once, and a lot of people already have computers anyway. And tracktion is a hundred bucks, or free with your interface, and Reaper is cheaper still. And if you have a PC, there are more amazing free VST's than you will ever need to use. So it's arguably not very expensive...unless you want it to be.

honkyjonk · Post by **honkyjonk** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:11 pm

"Computer based is indeed far superior to the little boxes for ease of use (providing you RTFM and do everything the way they want you to...) and can be very cost effective. What can cost more is 8 ins at once. M box Mini comes with Pro Tools for $299 but has only one mic in, 2 ins total. "

Are you kidding me? This guy was using a Tascam 488. Computer recording is NOT easier than something like a Korg/Boss/Tascam/Roland/Akai whatever digital thingy if you're a musician and not computer savvy. You have to deal with a million little devils talking to each other. MBoxes do not just work immediately, you have to make sure all the correct digidesign proprietorial bullshit is in order according to which operating system you're using and/or which version of protools you have, HD allocation, RAM, and a bunch of other shit savvy computer people take for granted. And then yay, you're dealing w/ a 2 in/2out unbalanced box that sounds pretty okay.

A tascam 388 is gonna be much easier to figure out that any computer program. The problems that might follow the deck or arise after you buy it however might be a little more difficult and there is tape cost, but you have to ask yourself what you want to do. Do you want to fuck around with a computer for 20 hours to record for 15 minutes and then have another monstrous problem arise that you don't understand and have this happen all the time, or do you want to just record because you're fucking ready to record.

Anyway, this is obviously colored by my non-software savvy aesthetic (problem). If you want to be a recording engineer then by all means, you should learn this stuff, and everything else, but if you write songs and play songs, and that's your thing, then life is short man. Just find something that will record you and write songs and record them and write more.

percussion boy · Post by **percussion boy** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:01 pm

Ableton Live 6 reminds me the most of multitrack cassette, in a good way. What I mean is, it ALWAYS WORKS. Sonar and Cubase stuff has crashed on me and eaten good takes, but Ableton never has.

Plus it does all the stuff I wish the cassette had been able to -- real easy to reorder the parts of a song, change speeds, change keys, etc. One drawback is it's not always the cleanest, soundwise, but it sounds like you don't want clean.

Mainly, it keeps on tickin'.

Maybe with a Firepod, they're cheap right now & the pres sound decent.

FWIW.

Rob Christensen · Post by **Rob Christensen** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:05 am

FWIW (as an alternate view), you might look at simply repairing the 488. It's a great machine. I mention this because you named Giant Sand. In prepping for the Tape Op Conference, I learned that Howe Gelb still uses his Fostex 4-track cassette machine, saying "It's weaknesses then are it's strengths now." He played me some really nice stuff recorded very recently on that machine.

Justin Foley · Post by **Justin Foley** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:06 am

You should keep a machine around that will allow you to playback the cassettes that you've recorded. A decent condition 424 should set you back about $125 or so on eBay.

For new stuff, keep this in mind if you go digital - you'll have an easier time playing those cassettes back 20 years from now on your 424 than you will playing your digital master on your digital interface.

= Justin

Edited for clarity.

aghaller8 · Post by **aghaller8** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:50 am

Rob Christensen wrote: Howe Gelb still uses his Fostex 4-track cassette machine, saying "It's weaknesses then are it's strengths now." He played me some really nice stuff recorded very recently on that machine.

That is a zen Koan for this whole discussion, thanks man. I'll ruminate on it.

And the 388 sounds like a cool way to go, May look into repairing the beast too. As far a computer based recording goes, don't think I'm there yet. I don't want to limp into it. And financially I hope to be in a better situation for big spendin in a couple years= Comp.

So I guess I'm looking for a bridge between the two. Don't think I'll ever quit cassette totally, aural scrapbooks.

Thanks for all the input too, I love this place.

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Alright, I'm done with Cassette

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