keep the room mic

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

Post Reply
User avatar
dokushoka
buyin' a studio
Posts: 811
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:37 pm
Location: San Francisco / L.A.
Contact:

Post by dokushoka » Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:52 pm

so in your opinion everyone should be listening to more current FM radio and trying to make our stuff sound like that?
This is not what I was saying at all. I, personally, went through a 15 year period where I hardly ever listened to FM radio (aside from NPR) and was completely unaware of any new popular artists and all the MTV stuff. I hated it! I was mostly listening to late 80s early 90s English stuff, Scott Walker, some obscure hip hop, etc. Then the "indie" craze happened and I started to check out some of those bands. I thought it was an interesting sound for a while and I actually sought out indie bands to work with. I've literally done over 100 records like that now.
what if an artist is recording their music with the intention of making something they like?
Of all the artists I've worked with, I can only think of a handful who actually tell me that they enjoy listening to their own music. They seem to love making music, but just not listening to their own stuff. Strangely, the only people I've met that seem to listen to their recording with any regularity are the guys who are recording at home for fun.
and trusting their aesthetic enough to think that maybe if they like it, someone else probably will too.
That's a hard one. Again, I can think of SO many people who I've worked with who did their own recordings with an aesthetic that THEY thought was good only to have everyone tell them that they didn't like it. I think the reason is that because many artists are so close to their own material that its hard for them to hear things with enough objectivity. Of course, there are many exceptions, but artists tend to go off in a million different directions (such is the nature of creativity) and it can often take an outsider to pull things into focus.
do your friends like the way the drums sound on 'when the levee breaks'?
Of course some do. I mean, John Bonham is arguably one the greatest rock drummers of all time and has largely defined the sound of modern rock. Few drummers can play at his level and get that amount of power from a drum kit. Thus the need for close mics. :wink: The drummer from the Verve gets the closet, IMO. Bittersweet Symphony has one of the absolute best drum sounds on any record that I've heard in the last 20 years! Both When The Levee Breaks and Bittersweet Symphony have EXCELLENT captured room sounds that few people have been able to replicate. If, IF, you had a drummer that amazing in a space that sounded like the ones on either of those songs, then its a whole different ball game...
[/quote]
Last edited by dokushoka on Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Let me mix your music!
http://www.sfrecording.com

User avatar
dokushoka
buyin' a studio
Posts: 811
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:37 pm
Location: San Francisco / L.A.
Contact:

Post by dokushoka » Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:58 pm

give me lots of room. fuck myspace and computer speakers and mp3s and anything else that has contributed to the downfall of great records. if doesn't work in this age i know i'm doing something right.
Well there is a famous example of this....

Butch Vig, in spite of his brilliant production on Nevermind, supposedly got very roomy drum sounds that weren't working in the mixes.

Enter the whole Andy Wallace thing. Andy brought in samples and created a drum sound which so many bands strive to emulate. He also created a sound that basically made him so busy for the next 10 years that he was nearly impossible to get to.

Do you know what he costs to mix a song? More than most people's entire album budgets are.

I am sure you've carved out quite a niche for yourself, but unless you have people paying $8k for you to mix one track, then I'm sure there is a whole 'nuther sound that you could tap into that a whole lot of people want...

Anyways, because Andy Wallace did all that stuff, do you think it HURTS the artistic vision of Nevermind?

Cobain claimed that he didn't like the sound long after the fact, but Vig himself says that that was probably just a reaction to jocks and what not getting into the band.

i don't get caught in the flavour of the month mode.
Roomy drums sound ARE the flavor of the month. Along with sloppy, garagy production.

A few years ago, by his own admission, no one would even consider hiring Tchad Blake to mix. Now look at him!

http://realworldstudios.com/
Let me mix your music!
http://www.sfrecording.com

RefD
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:10 pm

Post by RefD » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:05 pm

dokushoka wrote:Do you know what he costs to mix a song? More than most people's entire album budgets are.
wow, so if he's expensive he MUST be good!
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

User avatar
dokushoka
buyin' a studio
Posts: 811
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:37 pm
Location: San Francisco / L.A.
Contact:

Post by dokushoka » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:07 pm

RefD wrote:
dokushoka wrote:Do you know what he costs to mix a song? More than most people's entire album budgets are.
wow, so if he's expensive he MUST be good!
Yeah, his discography isn't so bad. I mean, at least a FEW people like his work...

http://wm06.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=a ... qrgldse~T4
Let me mix your music!
http://www.sfrecording.com

RefD
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:10 pm

Post by RefD » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:11 pm

dokushoka wrote:
RefD wrote:
dokushoka wrote:Do you know what he costs to mix a song? More than most people's entire album budgets are.
wow, so if he's expensive he MUST be good!
Yeah, his discography isn't so bad. I mean, at least a FEW people like his work...

http://wm06.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=a ... qrgldse~T4

yay, he won the popularity contest.

let's all emulate him!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

User avatar
dokushoka
buyin' a studio
Posts: 811
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:37 pm
Location: San Francisco / L.A.
Contact:

Post by dokushoka » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:14 pm

RefD wrote:
dokushoka wrote:
RefD wrote:
dokushoka wrote:Do you know what he costs to mix a song? More than most people's entire album budgets are.
wow, so if he's expensive he MUST be good!
Yeah, his discography isn't so bad. I mean, at least a FEW people like his work...

http://wm06.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=a ... qrgldse~T4

yay, he won the popularity contest.

let's all emulate him!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I recommend checking out his work on "Roots" for Sepultura. Let me know if you can find a bigger guitar sound than that record...


:wink:
Let me mix your music!
http://www.sfrecording.com

User avatar
dokushoka
buyin' a studio
Posts: 811
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:37 pm
Location: San Francisco / L.A.
Contact:

Post by dokushoka » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:15 pm

Doh, or the At The Drive In record. Indie kids love that.
Let me mix your music!
http://www.sfrecording.com

???????
resurrected
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:15 pm

Post by ??????? » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:26 pm

I think part of what we have here is a classic case of a different goal/outlook.

the gentleman going by the name of dokushoka seems to feel that a record is a failure if a bunch of people don't like it.

I'm sure many others do not measure success by the yardstick of "approval" of one or many. I know I don't!

That's just a difference.

He also implies that people who record at home for fun are somehow in a different category than people with more ambitious goals for their music. Again, that's a difference from how many people would feel (self included again).

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Bunches of people like room mics, this guy wants us to know that he doesn't as often find them so useful. Oh, and that we shouldn't either. :wink:

With the possible exception of that last little bit, there's room for all points of view and the sun will still rise tomorrow if everyone concerned goes right on recording and reproducing the same kinds of sounds they did yesterday. whoop.
Last edited by ??????? on Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dokushoka
buyin' a studio
Posts: 811
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:37 pm
Location: San Francisco / L.A.
Contact:

Post by dokushoka » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:33 pm

brad347 wrote: the gentleman going by the name of dokushoka seems to be implying that a record is a failure if a bunch of people don't like it.
If the goal was to produce a record that lots of people will like, then yes, its a failure. My own, personal music is horribly uncommercial and I never intended it to be liked by lots of people.
I'm sure many others do not measure success by the yardstick of "approval" of one or many.
Naturally. There are a lot of musicians who depend on people buying their music and going to their shows to make a living, though, and for those people, its a whole different ball game...
He also implies that people who record at home for fun are somehow in a different category than people with more ambitious goals for their music.
How many home recordist are making a living off their music and how many are doing it as a hobby? Recording at home obviously gives you full freedom to follow your artistic muse, and that is wonderful. But, if you have a huge advance to pay back, its probably not the best course of action...
I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Bunches of people like room mics, this guy wants us to know with great conspicuousness that he doesn't find them useful. Oh, and that we shouldn't either. :wink:

Seems pretty cut-and-dried to me!
I love room mics and I use them on every single drum kit that I record. I just use them differently than the ways that others have described.

And again, I've built whole drum sounds around them on several records. You can hear one on my site.
Let me mix your music!
http://www.sfrecording.com

RefD
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:10 pm

Post by RefD » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:42 pm

dokushoka wrote:
RefD wrote:
dokushoka wrote:
RefD wrote:
dokushoka wrote:Do you know what he costs to mix a song? More than most people's entire album budgets are.
wow, so if he's expensive he MUST be good!
Yeah, his discography isn't so bad. I mean, at least a FEW people like his work...

http://wm06.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=a ... qrgldse~T4

yay, he won the popularity contest.

let's all emulate him!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I recommend checking out his work on "Roots" for Sepultura. Let me know if you can find a bigger guitar sound than that record...


:wink:
i'm sure it sounds fine.

doesn't mean it's always appropriate or that he's not been hideously overpaid on occasion.

moreover, i think you appear to be missing the point of all these dissenting responses you're getting.

but mostly i am laughing my ass off over here.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

???????
resurrected
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:15 pm

Post by ??????? » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:45 pm

I'm not sure where we got into the presumption that everyone had advances to pay back and all that, and anyway who really cares about all that?

I will "out" myself, I also make my living off of music.

And unlike you, it hasn't been so much my experience that what I do is in any way "a whole different ball game" from people who happen not to get paid (enough) from it.

Maybe I've just been lucky, or been around lucky people, but i've seen it time and again "following (one's) own artistic muse" can actually get you paid. It's not as rare as one might think that something honest will actually get over. More often than not this beautiful thing, when I've seen it, comes in the form of selflessly giving oneself to the music, which usually means fulfilling a role and letting what is supposed to happen happen all by itself (no matter what it may be)... a very uncalculated/ing process.

But nobody really asked me I guess! :D
Last edited by ??????? on Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

???????
resurrected
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:15 pm

Post by ??????? » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:46 pm

RefD wrote: but mostly i am laughing my ass off over here.
Yeah this has been a rather fun one, hasn't it! :D :wink: :lol: 8)

MoreSpaceEcho
zen recordist
Posts: 6328
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:15 am

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:11 am

dokushoka wrote: because Andy Wallace did all that stuff, do you think it HURTS the artistic vision of Nevermind?
it absolutely does. those drums sound horrible and fake and the whole sound of the record i find annoying and unpleasant to listen to. to me it sounds like a plastic facsimilie of a rock band. i'd rather just hear the band. i don't like the sound of in utero either, but at least it sounds like a rock band in a room together, rocking. nevermind sounds like drum samples and 3k.
Roomy drums sound ARE the flavor of the month.
do you really believe this stuff or do you just put your fingers on the keys and type whatever?

when the levee breaks
the meters
'mushroom' by can
phil fucking collins
police 'ghost in the machine'
breeders 'pod'
shellac '1000 hurts'

there's 30 years of roomy drums for you.

???????
resurrected
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:15 pm

Post by ??????? » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:19 am

not to mention pretty much everything recorded in the 30 years of rock drums BEFORE "when the levee breaks"

:D

MoreSpaceEcho
zen recordist
Posts: 6328
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:15 am

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:33 am

those guys were just hobbyists.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests