keep the room mic

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trodden
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Post by trodden » Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:46 pm

lionaudio wrote:The thing is, I'm not AGAINST reverb, or any other effect for that matter. If I had to record drums in a room that sounded like crap, or was too small, I would throw on a good lexicon reverb and be very happy. I just find it more appealing to use a good sounding room. I'm sure I have heard recordings that I thought was real room, when it was a really nice unit instead. But I'm not talking about listening to music. I'm talking about recording music. This thread is about using reverb effects vs. using room mics. And you hit it on the head, you use both. I think we all sometimes see recording as "I can either do this, or I can do this, but not both". If the music we are recording calls for more reverb than our room provides, it's time to dust off the effects unit, or move to a larger room, or both.
Totally.

I record in a basement. Its a good sized basement, i can have a full band track together in there with the right placement, but i'm dealing with 7.5 ft high ceilings and i've treated it some, mostly in the area the drums go and that has helped but really, i don't get much "room" out of it that i can use in place of a reverb unit. and even the Lexicon LXP-1 i picked up awhile ago from a fellow TOMBER made a great improvement over the plug reverbs i've got in my LE system. The plugins are useful, but tax my processor, so with the Lexicon, a Holier Grail, also purchased from a fellow TOMBER, my SPX90, and some guitar delay pedals, i'm digging the results.

I alway use a room mic, at least one, for drums as well. usually the TOMB ribbon in front of the kit about 10 ft, about chest high and a usually going for the "booooompaaaahhhh" as dokushoka was mentioning above. usually through an 1176 plug in or recently through a symetrix 501. Mix it in, more and less where needed! it ads some fun to the drums, some i gues some "reality" but not really that, just some excitment, some body.

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Post by trodden » Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:51 pm

acoustic guitars ran through half stacks sound really nice with an omni room mic. usually the older version of the cad e300. ads some sparkle and "realness" to the tracks.

same with viola through an ampeg 8X10.. 421 on the cab, tomb ribbon 15ft back. aweseome.

guitars, depends on the song/riff whatever. sometime yeah, sometimes no, sometimes just don't got the time to spend two hours moving mic's around.

vocals, i always have some kind of room/ambient mic... just "in case" type thing. sometimes it gets used in effect, sometimes it gets blended as is, sometimes, i slide it around in PT to line up with the close mic, but since the room mic is omni and picking up the ROOM, with it slid in phase, it still adds some cool character.

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Post by drumsound » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:59 pm

dokushoka wrote:
drumsound wrote:
dokushoka wrote: I find room mics appealing, but I also went through a phase where I went overboard with them. Of all my work, the records where I had the room mics up really high, with a few exceptions, are easily my worst sounding recordings. Things tend to sound washed out and unprofessional. The room I used at my old studio for drums was ok sounding, but honestly, not great. I've since worked in some really fantastic sounding rooms and that completely changed my perspective. In those rooms, I can cram in more room mics or will go with a spaced pair of m160s. Here is a link to how I set them up on my site:

http://sfrecording.com/photos.html
That might be why you get something different from me and MSE. i like omnis about waist high and he likes them near the floor. Up high is a totally different thing.

This has turned out to be quite a cool thread and It's interesting to hear what you and others think about room mics.
Sorry, by "really high" I meant in terms of volume in the mix. Stupid intermaweb. :?
Nevermind... :roll:

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Post by dokushoka » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:45 pm

I've been thinking about this room mic business while mixing the past two days. I was trying to figure out when I stopped using omni/stereo room mics and why. I think the main reason is because the main thing I want from the room is kick and snare and with the kick and snare in the mix, the primary thing I strive for is a super strong center image. A tight mic pattern helps achieve that. If I need more ambience or space, that is easy to add. I just send the room mic into a stereo reverb or the H3000 and that spreads it out just fine and I can have tons of control over it.

So, in short, its easier to add ambience than to take it away and its hard to get a strong center image from stereo/omni ambient mics.
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Post by JGriffin » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:59 pm

trodden wrote:acoustic guitars ran through half stacks sound really nice with an omni room mic. usually the older version of the cad e300. ads some sparkle and "realness" to the tracks.
You and me, man, we're the "acoustic through an amp" twins, I love it.
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Post by RefD » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:23 pm

dwlb wrote:
trodden wrote:acoustic guitars ran through half stacks sound really nice with an omni room mic. usually the older version of the cad e300. ads some sparkle and "realness" to the tracks.
You and me, man, we're the "acoustic through an amp" twins, I love it.
make that triplets. :)
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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:02 am

dokushoka wrote:its hard to get a strong center image from stereo/omni ambient mics.
not really.

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Post by dokushoka » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:37 am

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:
dokushoka wrote:its hard to get a strong center image from stereo/omni ambient mics.
not really.
Well by design, an omni is going to give you more early reflections in a small room than a mic with a tighter pattern. I mean that is sort of the nature of their designs...
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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:11 pm

sure. my room's like 40x25x13 though, not exactly small.

i agree that if you have omni's 20 feet from the kit and spaced 20 feet apart it's likely gonna be weird, hell your snare might even be out of phase between the two mics. but 6 feet in front and maybe 4 feet apart it sounds like a drum kit in a room. i find that if you're listening to the room mics by themselves, the kick does lean a little left and the snare a little right, but once you have the close mics in there you're not hurting for 'center'.

lemme find an example and i'll post it and you can all make fun of me. :D

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Post by apropos of nothing » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:04 pm

finger snaps, fall roost of crows, piano, synth through speaker, answerig machine, trumpet, televisions, crickets, police band through a truck speaker system. Where does music recording stop and field recording start, again?

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Post by T-rex » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:58 pm

Lately along with my mono drum room mic about waist high and out in front, I have been putting a tape op ribbon up in the corner above the drums and facing down at the snare drum over the drummers head (with some foam in the corner to stop the back of the ribbon from picking up crazy phase crap). I think it sounds amazing and through pure dumb luck, it is always in phase with the OH's for some reason. I stick it almost right up to the ceiling.

I use room mics to pick up the oomph from things like bass drums and toms. Just close micing or OH's don't really pick up the sound of a drum filling up a room for me, add the room mics and bam, instant phat.

Finally, I like to put a mic down the hallway or a few rooms over for some crazy smacky sound. It makes a great reverb affect. Sounds like a small bright room but way delayed and cool. . .
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Post by JohnDavisNYC » Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:26 pm

i gotta go with morespaceecho on the omni tip... a good pair of omni's a few feet out from the kit and spaced somehow gets suprisingly little int he way of early reflections... it just sounds like a kit... maybe it is due to the high frequency directionality, i dunno... maybe it is because the reflections aren't colored strangely like they are with other polar pattern's off axis pickup... our pair of geffel m693s in front of the kit sounds unbelievably real, even in a somewhat narrow part of our room.

i dunno. maybe it is just those geffels for me... they are like little magic sticks with wires.

john

edited due to pinot grigio intake making it difficult for my posting to make sense...
Last edited by JohnDavisNYC on Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dokushoka » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:55 pm

I guess I don't really do the sort of roomy indie drum sounds that everyone seems to be doing now a days. :shock:
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Post by cgarges » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:04 pm

dokushoka wrote:Things tend to sound washed out and unprofessional.
Yeah man, when I hear "Blueberry Hill," unprofessional is what really comes to mind.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:46 am

ok sorry, i got totally sidetracked yesterday....here's a mix in progress...just a lazy late night jam, i'm playing drums and rhodes, my friend is on bass and monosynth and the intro drums. the room mics come and go, easy to hear the difference...sorry it's kinda quiet...

disclaimer: i suck at the drums.

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