do drummers really make the best producers?

[snakeskinboots]

I've had a few engineers tell me that it's so. Makes pretty good sense...especially if they get really involved in identifying the right groove for the tunes.

Well, I'm a singer-songwriter looking for someone in the N.Central Texas area to play drums and co-produce some of my stuff.

If you're interested or you've got a lead, let me know.

many thanks!

[percussion boy]

I can't help you with your specific Texas needs, but the question really drew me in.

In some ways a drummer could be good, since the good ones are real conscious of groove and tone color. I think it's also important to have someone on the production team who understands chord progressions and has a good sense of pitch, because a singer can't necessarily tell whether they're in tune and being in tune matters.

A lot of the most famous drummer/producers are also singers and/or keyboard players -- Narada Michael Walden, Maurice White, Jan Hammer, Stevie Wonder, Larry Blackmon, etc.. I'm not sure if James Stroud plays a harmonic instrument.

Good luck with the search.

[Kasey]

I don't think it's vital or necessary at all to be a drummer to be a good producer, but it is usually important for the producer to focus on the percussion as the building block that all other elements of the mix hinge on.

When I am mixing, the centerpiece of the song (excluding vocals), sonically speaking, is almost always the drums. A lot of amateur mixes I hear have the drums too low in the mix, and/or the drums are thin in order for the guitars to be big... perhaps some of this is just preference, but I can't stand mixes like that.


I WANT MY DRUMS TO PUT A HOLE IN YOUR CHEST.

sorry.

anyways, my point - it's not necessary to be a drummer, just to have a good understanding of rhythm/percussion, and to focus on the drums first.

[mjau]

One thing about good drummers is that they have always been involved in mixing and finding a balance, since the kit is made up of a number of parts and can vary so greatly in terms of tonality. I think that translates well into sitting behind a console. I primarily played bass during my formative music years, so it's no surprise that my mixes tend to be muddy and one-dimensional - not unlike my bass playing.

[snakeskinboots]

I love the way that Ethan Johns plays drums on the records he's produced: especially on the albums that he's done with Ours, Ray LaMontagne and Ryan Adams.

From the interviews and articles that I've read about him, the most important parts of the song are lead vocal performance and drums. Everything is built around them.

I'd give up an inside toe and all of my money for a few days in the studio with a guy like that.

I agree with Kasey about the drum mix being the centerpiece of the song (excluding vocals).

Has anyone ever noticed the drum mix on the song "Long Lost Brother" by Over The Rhine? For the style of song, I can't imagine the drums sounding better.

[dokushoka]

I'd say it depends. Every producer is different and every band has different needs.

I think its great if you can get a "drum producer" (I've seen that happen a few times) if your regular producer isn't that on top of things.

Butch Vig springs to mind as a drummer/producer, and he's no slouch obviously.

I worked backwards and realized that if I wanted to be effective at recording drums and producing music that I should LEARN to play the drums and actually did just that. I can hold down pretty basic songs fairly well and its helped me tremendously. I think its a good thing for any musician to learn, really so at least everyone can better understand what the drummer can do.

[???????]

I agree that drums are great for any musician or person involved in music to learn.

Jazz musicians, etc will often play at least rudimentary piano because it helps visualize harmony, etc. On my own personal path, the ability to play some drums has proven to be every bit... actually MORE useful and important.

Rhythm is such an important component of any music descended, however distantly, from west african traditions. This includes jazz, blues, rock, metal, R&B, hip-hop, lots of stuff. In fact checking out some west african drumming can itself be a real eye-opener.

But in addition to that, the drummer is really in the driver's seat as far as intensity level in most any ensemble. Drums are a cheif source of support for energy, and they can create energy as well as wind it down. This is something about which I became more keenly aware as I started playing more drums myself, especially in jazz contexts. The drummer is like the conductor in an orchestra, setting up section changes, etc with a fill or dynamic changes (however subtle) to 'cue' the ensemble that a change is coming up. Often the other members of the ensemble won't know WHY they know where to come in, they will just know. It's on a subconscious level.

A great drummer will have a keen awareness of pacing, orchestration, the balance of predictability/surprise, dynamics, the overall shape and build of the music, etc.

Sound familiar? Those are all pretty damn important skills for a producer to have, as well. Actually pretty damn important for any musician. But the drummer is really the one, usually, who is in the driver's seat as far as that is concerned.

So... hm. Interesting discussion!

HOWEVER, something else that I think has been really important for me on the occasions in which I acted as a producer on someone else's projects has been knowledge of harmony. Many great drummers will have a good knowledge of harmony as well, but this quality is certainly not universal (or even terribly common) among drummers in general. If you can find a drummer who also has some piano or guitar skills or at least a fairly decent grasp of harmony (i.e. can hear and follow function in a tonal chord progression by ear... V to I etc) then that would to me represent a person who was a pretty complete musician.

And I think that's what we really want from a producer. Someone who is a complete musician themselves (often they will be more complete and experienced of musicians than the artists they are producing, and that's great!)

[wenley]

In my book, the classic drummer/producer would have to be Jimmy Miller, who did most of the Stones' best albums. He was instrumental (I know, bad pun, kill me now!) in getting good feeling grooves happening. Half the time he played percussion and set the groove with his playing. I think he's the cowbell on Honky Tonk Women, but I'm not 100% sure. But I think it really depends on the material as to whether a drummer/producer is the best person for the session, but I would think a drummer/producer might be the best choice for a band with a rhythm section that needed a little kick in the ass to be all they could be. Just a thought.

[percussion boy]

Rhythm is such an important component of any music descended, however distantly, from west african traditions. This includes jazz, blues, rock, metal, R&B, hip-hop, lots of stuff. In fact checking out some west african drumming can itself be a real eye-opener.

+1. I didn't really get the styles above 'til I'd learned a bunch of traditional drum music from Ghana and Nigeria. Suddenly it all made sense.

HOWEVER, something else that I think has been really important for me on the occasions in which I acted as a producer on someone else's projects has been knowledge of harmony.

+1 agin. Nowadays, there's no excuse for NOT knowing harmony AND rhythm at a pop music level. The books and videos are out there.