How can I convince a band to hire professional mastering?

[jziggy314]

So I know many out there believe that mastering is now something that can be done at home but I am not one of them.

First I explained all of the things that a true mastering job should entail including EQ/Compression (if and when needed), sample/bit rate reduction, sequencing, PQ editing, ISRC # coding, writing to a low error digital master media like a Sonic Solutions master or better yet the umatic tape that the factory will use to create the glass master, etc.

Second, I explained why these (to them) arcane tasks are important. The EQ and compression are used to bring a continuity to the sequence through complimentary frequency colorations and averaging levels. Blah, blah, blah ad infinitum. I could come up with 100 different reasons why and they still would be sitting on the fence as they are now.

They've got a buddy who works for a cable channel doing mastering for video. He has offered to master the album at his house and they are interested. I told them that if they want their album to sound like it is on tv then by all means have this guy master it.

I am on my wits end about this for a number of reasons. a) this is my first full length album and I want all the love I can possibly get for it. b) i took a cut in my engineering fees so the band could afford a good mastering facility. c) i think that if i held out the mixes on them they would actually take the mp3s ive given them access to and have those mastered which is certainly worse.

How do I convince these guys to do the right thing?

If anyone is interested the mp3s for the album can be found at http://www.jziggy.com/cornbredblues.html The final mixes are at the bottom of the page.[/url]

[thethingwiththestuff]

well, i certainly hope you don't withhold masters if they dont choose the route you want them to. it is their record if they're all paid up.

there's only so much you can do... if they're super concerned about money, send them to carl saff at saff mastering. you'll be happy with what he does and they'll be happy with his rates.

[JGriffin]

Hate to say this, but it's not your choice, ultimately. If you want something you know is gonna sound good for your reel, keep a copy of the unmastered mixes.

[OM15.2]

How do I convince these guys to do the right thing?

first up, the "right" thing isn't always mastering. I understand all your reasons above, and understand you want all the love for this project because it's your first, but ultimately it's not really about you.

[xonlocust]

you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

to empathize - i've had similar situations, and there's stuff floating about that i've done that's not mastered at all. even so i've gotten good feedback from those who've heard those sessions floating on myspace and such, but take solace in knowing this particular recording is not the last recording you will do. you will team up with people who will take it to the next level so to speak, and just ride it out. none of your favorite engineers/producers came out of the womb on their first recording banging - it's something that's developed, and there are some things that will always be out of your control. start planning your next move and the things that are in your control.

[daved]

As everyone else has said, it's not your call, regardless of any breaks you may have given them in recording. As a pro, there are many records I've worked on that sound like a$$ because of some bad decision made by an artist or label. That's life. As an engineer, I take consolation in the fact that my discography is longer and deeper than a single record, but that's pretty easy for me to say after 20+ years in the biz - I felt exactly like you after the first one (similar story - ultimately played a big role in my decision to pursue mastering as a career).

Fortunately you don't need to suffer in silence, and you have some other options...

Don't make this a battle, because you will lose. Instead, get back on the team. I would suggest the band check their friend's discography on AMG; if he has no credits, remind them they get what they pay for. Urge them to ask for a demo, since the targets are so different. Next, find an ME willing to do a shoot out, or depending on the degree of your stress pay for a demo... these days this is easier than you might think. At the end, sit down and compare the results. If the TV guys stuff is slammed to the wall, adjust the perceptual levels and compare at equal loudness. If the TV guys stuff sounds better at the same level, stop worrying. If it sounds like chalk next to the ME's stuff, the band will make the right call.

Do be sensitive to the band's budget, and find them a reputable ME they can afford. There's no point in asking for or buying a big name demo if the band will never be able to afford the final product. There are good ME's at every price point.

Regardless, you have to accept that whoever pays the bill has the say. After you explain the variables, if they opt for free/bad or no mastering at all due to budget, your only recourse is to offer to pay or shut up.

20/20 hindsight suggests your mistake was cutting your rates based on an unrealistic expectation (that you could dictate what happens with work you did for hire). Unless that's in writing, it's meaningless, and honestly I've never heard of such a thing working out!

A better solution for next time: Bill full card, and offer to pick up some or all of the bill with the ME of your choice. Then you have some leverage. This is becoming increasingly common as people move to "project" and "song" based billing - guys working to cut bands deals in mixing often roll the mastering into the project or track cost, and handle it all door-to-door. I have a couple clients I work this way with - I can offer them a discount on mastering, which they pass along to their clients, ensuring their mixes are properly mastered. Win-win.

-d-

[jziggy314]

Thanks so much for the all the responses. They were all very helpful though I feel I need to clarify.

I did cut my engineering rates on a handshake promise to "weigh heavily my opinions on mastering". Not a direct quote but close enough. Probably not legally binding but that is the risk I took. And when I say that I cut my rates I mean I asked for enough money to cover rentals and thats it because I really believe in the band and their music. Aside from an enigneering credit I also will have co-producer credit and the usual 3%-5% royalty for it.

That said I have already committed lots of time and resources to the project and am willing to do more if I have to. I am seriously thinking about footing half the expense of mastering in exchange for taking my reccomendation on facility.

Like I said. I really believe in the band and their music so I think I'll take that gamble.

Thanks again for the comments.

http://www.jziggy.com/cornbredblues.html

[OM15.2]

is this a self release or is there some kind of label behind it?

(I'm assuming the former) so... if the band have gone into this recording in order to have a disc to shop around to labels, and/or to sell at shows etc, then, (having just listened to a couple of tracks); "pro" mastering really isn't something to get hung up over, because frankly the recording is fine, you've done a fine job.

but you see personally I didn't like the music, (especially the vocal), sure I'm just some twit on the interwebs without taste, but personally i wouldn't shell out for this disc, let alone pay for them to get it mastered, so I'm wondering if you are just too close to this and need to be more pragmatic? It's awesome that you DO like the band and the music, and that you want the best for them. I think you've done a fine job on the recording, and you've given them good advice... but yeah... tempted to suggest that's enough

[Dave Stanley]

I would assume there are some projects ME's get that do not need a lot of work. This would probably be one of them.
That said, since you are so close to the project, why not master it yourself?

[roscoenyc]

do you have a 'go to' mastering guy who could do one song for you.... so you could show 'em what you were talking about? (a real mastering job as opposed to another guy w a workstation)

[JGriffin]

Thanks so much for the all the responses. They were all very helpful though I feel I need to clarify.

I did cut my engineering rates on a handshake promise to "weigh heavily my opinions on mastering". Not a direct quote but close enough. Probably not legally binding but that is the risk I took. And when I say that I cut my rates I mean I asked for enough money to cover rentals and thats it because I really believe in the band and their music. Aside from an enigneering credit I also will have co-producer credit and the usual 3%-5% royalty for it.

That said I have already committed lots of time and resources to the project and am willing to do more if I have to. I am seriously thinking about footing half the expense of mastering in exchange for taking my reccomendation on facility.

Like I said. I really believe in the band and their music so I think I'll take that gamble.

Thanks again for the comments.

http://www.jziggy.com/cornbredblues.html

Okay, if you're a co-producer that's a little different than if you'd 'just' been an engineer (quotes added as I know I'll get flamed to a crisp for saying just the engineer on here). The "usual" royalty? How many people on here are making royalty deals for engineering? I'm genuinely curious, how often does that happen?

I agree with roscoenyc's suggestion to get one tune mastered as a comparison piece and try to sell them on it that way.

[jziggy314]

The "usual" royalty? How many people on here are making royalty deals for engineering? I'm genuinely curious, how often does that happen?

I agree with roscoenyc's suggestion to get one tune mastered as a comparison piece and try to sell them on it that way.

I should have stated royalties that are normal for major label (and some indie) producer deals. This is of course a hand-shake agreement but I asked for this royalty from the start. Since it is self release I just used 1000 CDs bought at $1 a piece then sold for $8 as an example and showed them how little 3% of the gross profit is. Then I reminded them of the large engineering discount and omission of any upfront producer fee and they agreed. This puts all of my eggs in the sales basket but that is why I'm so invested in the mastering, marketing, etc. It's a risk I was and still am willing to take.

is this a self release or is there some kind of label behind it?

Yes this is a self release though my "record label" will be listed. I don't have the marketing and distribution infrastructure to claim labelship and I am totally aware of this and so is the band. The best scenario is getting a distribution deal with some marketing packaged in but I don't have the time nor the resources to follow through with it. The band is getting better organized and have gotten better exposure recently so my hope is that they will be approached by an indie soon.

but you see personally I didn't like the music, (especially the vocal), sure I'm just some twit on the interwebs without taste, but personally i wouldn't shell out for this disc, let alone pay for them to get it mastered, so I'm wondering if you are just too close to this and need to be more pragmatic? It's awesome that you DO like the band and the music, and that you want the best for them. I think you've done a fine job on the recording, and you've given them good advice... but yeah... tempted to suggest that's enough

I understand that this is not pop music and can't be marketed as such. I developed a survey for them to help them pinpoint their market and who they need to focus on selling to. They just got a swag table set up. They are going to give stickers or what not away in exchange for answering the 20 questions on the survey. A sample pool of 100 is a totally acceptable amount and it wont cost the band much.

since you are so close to the project, why not master it yourself?

For that exact reason. I am way too invested in it. I want an objective pair of ears.

I appreciate the responses to the songs themselves. I have come to trust my ears but it certainly alleviates those fears of having done a horrible job.

[mertmo]

I am way too invested in it. I want an objective pair of ears.

Still, in light of all you have described, that really might be your best choice.