NS-10m monitors and the amps that power them

dokushoka · Post by **dokushoka** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:17 pm

ipressrecord wrote:After seeing the NS-10m's tweeters fry out on more than one occasion, I want to make sure that I do not send too much power to them. I notice that the ratings for each of the Adcoms are much different: 535 (60 watt per channel), 545 (100 watts into 8 ohms, 150 watts into 4 ohms), and 555 (200 Watts Per Channel at 8-Ohms & 325 at 4-Ohms with both channels driven).

How much power can the NS-10s handle? Are they running at 8 ohm or 4 ohm? Right now I am leaning toward the 535 power amp, though maybe the 545. Out of the three what's the best amp for the NS-10s that won't kill them. What should I watch out for regarding matching a power amp to these speakers?

Jeff

They like a lot of power. I know many people run 200w per channel into them. I am currently using a 545 which is 100w per channel and am extremely satisfied with the combo. I mix at very low volumes, alternating between speech and whisper levels. Because of this, I never worrying about blowing them out, although they are capable of getting quite loud with the 545...

rjd2 · Post by **rjd2** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:04 pm

im curious-i've never done any fuse-related sound testing. i've got fuses in my ns-10's. what do you experienced guys suggest for best sound? do i need to take 'em out, or is there a fuse value that will sound better than others i can try? thanks.

dokushoka · Post by **dokushoka** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:11 pm

rjd2 wrote:im curious-i've never done any fuse-related sound testing. i've got fuses in my ns-10's. what do you experienced guys suggest for best sound? do i need to take 'em out, or is there a fuse value that will sound better than others i can try? thanks.

My experience with fuses is that they alter the sound so I do not use them at all.
Unless you're getting nutty with levels, its pretty hard to blow up ns10s.

lefuquaire · Post by **lefuquaire** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:37 pm

i don't know about using hifi gear for a monitoring situation. i would suspect that would color the sound more than you might want.. i have been powering my ns-10's with an 80's crown dc300a (later black version).. it's straight power, a good match for the speakers. if anything it can be somewhat harsh after prolonged periods, but with this combination, i seldom find that my mixes come out too bright! next amp will probably be a bryston. the dc300a is a classic amp and a milestone for crown at the time. i'll probably always keep it.

rwc · Post by **rwc** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:38 pm

I'd prefer more power over less.

Lots of clean power is less likely to blow shit up than less, but distorted power.

As far as coloring the sound.. don't NS10s, a "professional monitor", color the sound more than a lot of hi-fi speakers? Axioms and Thiels are more honest than NS10s anyday, but I've never seen m22tis on the top of an SSL before.

The Adcoms are pretty flat and without nonsensical "soothing" or unintentional distortion. Stereophile did some measurements of the first one before the MKII came out. The MKII, unlike the original, doesn't take the speakers with it when it breaks. It did well.

I like the 555 MKII myself. Can be found for cheap used, will power anything, has no fans like rackmount stuff, is neutral, low in distortion. What more can I ask for.

...although, I have arranged double blind tests before for myself and had someone else switch. It was with solid state amps, I could never notice a difference. So as long as the amp is quiet, honest in its power rating, and can drive 3-4 ohm loads, I could care less what's powering the speakers.

joel hamilton · Post by **joel hamilton** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:53 pm

I use 250 watts per side, with fuses on the hot side. I tried them with and without fuses, and the difference is very slight, and certainly not a bummer for me. I know it is a bummer for some people. I would rather not buy woofers every couple of months. If something pops, like a DI getting unplugged without muting it... I dont want to be swapping cones in the middle of the session. I fuse my big speakers as well. Try it for yourself and listen. if it doesnt bother you, then it doesnt bother you...

Jeff White · Post by **Jeff White** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:49 pm

So, fuses immediately inside the cabinet on the hot side before the crossover?

mwingerski · Post by **mwingerski** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:41 pm

I use the yamaha 2200 model. It's the best power amp i've used so far... it gives the speakers some balls and feels like it's really moving some sound... the mids are more focused and it just feels better than the other ones i've tried which include

hafler transnova (didn't like it) p5000 (i think?), small and a bit wimpy
NAD integrated low wattage amp... OK, but not very inspiring
Bryston (can't remember the model either) which sounded awesome but is way too expensive...
Two very large haflers running in mono (also really great but seemed a bit like overkill)

General consensus I've come across, and in my own experience, over powering is the way to make them work well on rock music. They were originally designed for classical music, from what I'm told, and the designer was somewhat surprised at how they became such a staple in the rock and roll studio.

They're not the most pleasing to listen to, but they sure are useful...

Jeff White · Post by **Jeff White** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:44 pm

8th_note wrote: Assuming that it is in good condition your Pioneer receiver will work fine. I had a Pioneer of roughly that vintage and it sounded great. I wish I still owned it. You just about had to have a forklift to pick up those old receivers and that is an indication of their build quality. There's a reason why they sell for ridiculous prices on ebay.

NS-10Ms arrived today. Perfect working condition, 7.5 cosmetic. Perfect. I am boxing up the Alesis tonight, as I no longer need to or want to ever use them again. I can't believe that I have been mixing on them for almost 5 yrs. I feel a little bit... for lack of a better word... stupid.

Anyway, Now I'm back where I left off in 1998. I was at school, really excited about recording and mixing stuff, and working on NS-10Ms. All is better now.

Thanks for the input regarding power amps. I am going to pick up either a Yamaha power amp suggested here or an Adcom down the line. Right now I am running both the NS-10Ms and the NS-6490s off of my 1976 Pioneer SX-650 receiver. I can switch between speakers and add a touch of high end and engage the loudness for the NS-6490s, which is the usual EQ that they get when I listen to most things. The bass and treble pots on this thing are indented, so I get set it as flat as it goes and shut off the loudness to the NS-10Ms. I'm spending the evening going over stuff that I've worked on and stuff that I enjoy pulling up on good monitors (Steely Dan, Zappa, Sparklehorse, Chet Backer, The Cars, Squarepusher, Coltrane, Miles, Radiohead, Aimee Mann, etc etc). Everything sounds really great to me. Old familiar. I feel like I can mix on this... $370 setup ($30 for the Pioneer, The 6490s were a gift, I paid $340 for the NS-10Ms shipped). And I get two pairs of speakers to switch back and forth through. Funny thing is that I paid $399 + tax for the Alesis!!!

Anyway, happy camper.

EDIT Sunday Oct 7th - Mixed on them yesterday & today and my NS-6490s (for "big speaker" playback) and it is night and day from the M1 Actives. What took us months to mix last fall/winter (full-length) we're accomplishing in days on them. I am really happy and what is the biggest tell tale sign of how shitty the M1 Actives are in the midrange is that fact that my American P-Bass sounds perfect with a high-pass roll-off around 50-60Hz and a slight bump at 100Hz. That's it. Perfect bass sound that I've heard on lots of records before. etc etc. I'm just really happy.

Jeff

Jeff White · Post by **Jeff White** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:21 am

Ok, so after a few weeks with the NS-10Ms, I'm still vary happy with my decision. However, I have decided that I am not 100% happy with driving them from my 1976 Pioneer receiver or my 1969 Sansui 2000 Receiver. The Panasonic has a slight difference between both sides, and the Sansui is a bit noisy for accurate monitoring. Both have outputs for two speakers, and I am hooked on having that option.

I have decided that the Adcom GFA-545 II is the amp that I am going to pick up. I've read nothing but positive reviews for them online, and a lot of those reviews (even in this thread) say that the 545 is the perfect companion for NS-10Ms. However, I want to have the option of powering more than one set of monitors from the 545. So I am also looking at some of the speaker switchers that Adcom makes. I am assuning that this goes AFTER the poweramp, yes? I'm also curious about options for controlling the volume to the power amp. Am I looking at simply using the volume on the front of my 828mk2 to drive the 545, or is this a job for the something like the ATTY? Can I run unbalanced into or out of the ATTY to the GFA 545?

Or, once again, can someone recommend a decent power amp for NS-10Ms in the under $400 price range?

thanks!

Jeff

Jeff White · Post by **Jeff White** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:02 pm

Follow up...

I bought a Hafler P-3000 for the NS-10Ms. I was torn between the Adcom GFS-545 and the Hafler P-3000 in the end, and went with balanced connectors and more volume control. I may also pick up an Adcom down the line.

Who here thinks that this is a good idea or an extremely shitty idea for getting two pairs of speakers (NS-10M and NS-6490) hooked up to that Hafler?

Now with Adcom's GFS-3 and GFS-6 speaker selectors you can fill your home with sound at the push of a button Both selectors offer the security of Adcom's unique Minimum Impedance Protection-a design that fully protects your amplifier from almost any problem it might encounter when asked to simultaneously drive multiple speakers. And Minimum Impedance Protection does so without compromising the basic performance of your sound system! How very like Adcom. And how very unlike the competition. Of course, the inspiration for this innovation comes from Adcom's long experienced substantial success in producing high performance, high fidelity power amplifiers. Part of the knowledge gained over the years is an intimate familiarity with the demands loudspeakers place on any amplifier and the magnified demands created by a multiplicity of speakers. Our design goal quickly became not to just deliver sound to multiple speakers but to maintain the signal's sound quality as more speakers are added. Adcom's user-selectable Minimum Impedance Protection circuit on both GFS-3 and GFS-6 Speaker Selectors insures accurate and musically pleasing sound regardless of how many pairs of speakers you may want to drive simultaneously. This "security system" inserts massive protective resistors between your amplifier and speakers to insure that the load impedance is always within your amplifier's safe operating range. This low-impedance protection enables your amplifier to drive several speaker systems simultaneously without activating the amplifier's protection circuits or causing amplifier shutdown.

In addition to Minimum Impedance Protection, both the GFS-3 and GFS-6 feature wide-contact, heavy-duty switches capable of handling the full output of even a 200-watt per channel amplifier. High-quality circuit boards with wide signal traces contribute to minimal power loss. Each speaker selector is easy to connect with twist-lock input and output terminals that insure positive contact with both speaker and amplifier cables and prevent accidental disconnection. Both the GFS-3 and GFS-6 Speaker Selectors should be wired between your amplifier's outputs and your loudspeakers. (See the illustration.) The GFS-3 accommodates up to three pairs of speakers while the GFS-6 will permit you to use up to six pairs. Expand the versatility of your audio system with Adcom Speaker Selectors and you'll hear a difference. It's in the details.

It'll handle 200 watts at input, so I am assuming that as long as it isn't too colored, it'll be fine.

Jeff

DGoody · Post by **DGoody** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:34 pm

Firstly, throw them out....... NS-10s suck....... ha ha......

Beyond that, when I used NS-10s, I powered them with old McIntosh MC75 tube amps...... the only way they were ever listenable to me..... I did also use Hot House 500 amps, but they're a bit of coin...... MOSFET amps, and tubes seem to mate well with the NO SOUND 10......

I'm a high end audio monitor guy...... I think "pro audio" monitors suck, almost invariably..... especially powered shit.

knobtwirler · Post by **knobtwirler** » Wed May 07, 2008 11:53 pm

I just picked up a pair of NS-10s, because about 5 or more years ago I realized how people mix amazing records using these, and it really is the difference between doing it right and fast, and making the wrong decisions over and over and taking forever to arrive at a mix. Anyway, I need an amp for these, was looking at what most studios use and it's pretty expensive. I made a new post but found this thread in a NS-10 search. So what are the affordable brands and models that you guys use successfully? ipressrecord? Still happy with the Hafler?

Jeff White · Post by **Jeff White** » Mon May 12, 2008 6:56 am

Hafler arrived from ebay in bad condition, worked for about two weeks before one side went out. Both volume pots need to be cleaned and they pop and I'm worried about them damaging the speakers. To be honest I've been using my Pioneer HiFi Receiver since November without a problem. I could probably get more out of my monitoring setup with a dedicated poweramp, and I do intend to buy another one, however for right now things are fine.

The Adcoms and the Haflers are the standard from what I can tell.

Jeff

Spiderhead69 · Post by **Spiderhead69** » Mon May 12, 2008 7:54 am

I use a Hafler XL-280 power amp along with the Hafler 110 pre-amp for my monitoring set-up.
I did do a comparison using my old Pioneer SX-980 hi-Fi amp and the Hafler won out.
Also, I A/B between the NS-10's and a pair of Polk Audio 5JR's. The 5JR's sound much better than the NS-10's, so I go back and forth between the 2 in order to sculpter the sound.

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