Good useable bass tracks

[lotusstudio]

It has been frustrating for me to get bass sounds the way I like them. I have been focusing more on mics and preamps and learning Pro Tools. Now that I am recording a lot, I find the bass to often be the hardest thing to get right in the mix - and I am a bass player!

I love the deep tight growling tones I hear on Peter Gabriel's albums, for example. How do I get that strong and yet controlled sound?

My main bass is an old 1980's Ibanez bass. I have tried micing my old 15" Peavey bass amp with an EV RE27 (and other mics) at very close range. I also have an Avalon U5 direct pre I use. I often record both and align the phase blend them.

I tried to use compression with my RNC while tracking, but it sounded funny. So I use plug-in compression.

Still, I find I have to work really hard and use a lot of eq to get my bass to sit well in the mix. When I was in a band, it was easy to find the right bass tones. Not so easy now when the songs exist only on the recordings and have never been played live.

Maybe I just need a new bass guitar. That might make the most difference, right? Maybe, God forbid, a 5 string?? I've looked at Lakeland and W and Earnie Ball.

Or do I need a specific outboard compressor? (incidentally, is it better to eq the bass before or after compression? or both?)

Or a different amp rig for tracking?

When I get it sounding good on my monitors, it often sounds too boomy in my car. Maybe I am boosting the wrong frequencies because when I hear commercial cd's in my car the bass sounds so strong and rich. It sounds really low and good, even though my car speakers are not large!!

What can I do, that is simple, to solve this conundrum?

Thanks!

-Jim

[apropos of nothing]

I love the deep tight growling tones I hear on Peter Gabriel's albums, for example. How do I get that strong and yet controlled sound?

You get Daniel Lanois to record Tony Levin playing bass. Duh.

Okay, sorry. That's not what you wanted to hear.

As near as I can tell, nearly everyone gets at least a portion of their tone from a direct box. A lot of people (myself included) use a SansAmp Bass-Driver to get good bass tone. I love it. Gives me exactly what I want to hear, basically every time (with proper technique).

If your monitoring isn't giving you translation into the rest of the world, you should make that your first priority. Reposition, try different gear (monitors, amps), reposition, treat your room.

Once you get that sorted, you should have a much easier time getting the bass tone you're looking for.

Also, bass frequencies (not just bass guitar, but also kicks, deep drums, etc.) was the hardest thing for me to learn to work with. Here's what helped me: There should be about a quarter the amount of bass frequencies in a mix that you think you need. Try working with that and see if your mixes don't improve. Seriously.

[inverseroom]

SansAmp Bass Driver is amazing.

I have switched to all-amp for now, though...

[r0ck1r0ck2]

that carol kaye trick with the felt can't be beat.
felt under the strings for fingers..
felt over the strings for picks.

or have i got that backwards.?

good sound from an amp.
nice (sounding) LDC for the track.

hot shit that's a good bass sound!

[dsw]

The things that help me the most with getting bass to sit right are:
cut bass on every other track (except kick drum), like 100 hz hi pass filter ON.
Waves C4 compressor using it like an EQ to bring out the low mids with out actually EQ ing them in.
AND, (this one is counter-intuitive) cutting bass on the bass track. sometimes the real low stuff can muddy up things too much.
obvious stuff: new strings.
trick to try: turn the pre amp way up and pick (or finger) real soft.
If you have a Distressor you can get your hands on, those sound really great for tracking with compression. not too much, obviously, just enough to bring in some punch with out distorting.
Mixing: put up the Kick, bass and vocal. Get them to feel good together, then bring up other stuff around that, but don't use so much! Being a bass player myself I feel that the bass is the most important part of any song!!!!!! ha ha.
Well, one can dream.

[apropos of nothing]

Does anyone else use palm-muting when playing bass to get the Carol Kaye sound? Cuz I'm all about that. Can't bring myself to use a pick on bass. Hell, I'm even allergic to pick on guitar.

[;ivlunsdystf]

I'm not a pro, just a middleagedman in the garage with guitars and stuff. I hated recording bass until I discovered this:

Bass -> Musicman 65 (guitar head) with Bass and Mid pots cranked and Treble rolled off altogether; volume not particularly loud -> PA cabinet -> Ribbon mic rather close to largest cone on cabinet -> whatever preamp -> whatever recording device.

It sounds fantastic to my ears. Obviously you won't go acquire all those particular devices just to emulate a middleagedman in his garage, but consider the combination of not so loud guitar amp and very close (proximity effect) ribbon mic. It's been good for my petty needs.

[???????]

.

[r0ck1r0ck2]

yes.

think about those subwoofers.
think about those pod headphones

otherwise, and in addition to that, you should try some distortion

fuzzitout. then pull back.
find the trouble.
find the strength. then use that strength.

bass is a giant bitch.
you're fighting the man here.

everybody wants to be the heavy.
especially that goddamn drummer.

[;ivlunsdystf]

So nice to see Rock1rock2 back around here again.

[kdarr]

Does anyone else use palm-muting when playing bass to get the Carol Kaye sound? Cuz I'm all about that. Can't bring myself to use a pick on bass. Hell, I'm even allergic to pick on guitar.

Carol Kaye, and McCartney too. I've been doing this a lot lately. Almost takes care of the compression itself. With a pick and muting sometimes you can kinda halfway fake the old "tic-tac" bass sound, too.

+1 on the Sansamp DI, those are pretty great for the $.

[<|>]

[VelvetoneStudios]

We've got a piece of egg crate type foam that gets used under the strings right next to the bridge a lot. For most stuff I prefer flatwound strings, but obviously these wont work for slap or Lemmy style tones. I LOVE the flatwounds!! I also second the SansAmp pedal, but tend to end up using the MXR Bass DI plus to blend in a little grit while leaving the bottom alone. For most D.I. I run into the instrument driver on a Drawmer 1969 comp. Awesome!! For micing, (and stage, for that matter) I find that a single or pair of 10" speakers gives a tighter bass tone with less "rumble" Once you've got a happy tone into your tape dack or DAW, try cutting around the 400hz area with a mid sized Q and you'll hear the low bottom seem to open up. I usually end up with a hi pass at around 35 to 40 as well. once the bass and kick areworking together sonically, I find that hi pass's on the guitar/piano/tom tracks can leave the bottom tight and clear. So many huge guitar souinds have a lot less low end than they seem too. Also a common issue with electric bass is one note that really jumps out of the bass. (On my bass it's the 3rd fret G on the low E) I try to put a narrow notch in that main resonant freq. if the bass player can't balance it himself. Like Me!!

[apropos of nothing]

SansAmp Bass Driver is amazing.

I have switched to all-amp for now, though...

Say, IR, what're you using to mic your bass cab?

[lotusstudio]

Thanks everyone. Maybe I'll try the sansamp. good tips - hire Lanois, 10 inch speaker, ribbon mic, big room, mute the strings, targeted compression, roll off mids AND bass, etc... Lanois is my Myspace friend, so I'm sure he'll do it as a favor. Heck of a guy!

I still think a new bass might really help me.

Got the Avalon U5 because I heard so much good about it. Anyone else have this piece? The Sansamp somehow missed my consideration when I was shopping.

[???????]

oh! one more!

Totally experiment with polarity/phase. Sometimes for low frequency stuff "absolute phase" type of stuff comes into play, where you want the cones excursing on the first transient rather than retracting.