Van Halen Clocking Error Live!

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Van Halen Clocking Error Live!

Post by TapeOpLarry » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:12 am

http://warmowski.wordpress.com/2007/10/ ... -in-pitch/

They're making Sonic Youth sound in tune.
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Post by JGriffin » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:05 am

UTFSF! This has been posted in three threads now!
Last edited by JGriffin on Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by apropos of nothing » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:06 am

Y'r late to the party, Larry. =%>
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=48984

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Post by wenzel.hellgren » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:00 pm

go fuck your self

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Post by alissa » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:03 pm

you guys.

don't be mean to larry.

he's just out of the loop. 8)
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Post by swingdoc » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:14 pm

who's larry?

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Post by ;ivlunsdystf » Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:23 pm

Outstanding stuff there. It's actually worse [better] than the time I saw Roth do "Jump" live in Vegas (december 96) in a nearly-empty cabaret theater. He had session cats playing the material live, and quasi-nude pole dancers doing a risque dance. He was also pretty drunk from a snifter of brandy he had onstage on a little end table next to the mic stand, at least by the time he got to the "Jump" showstopper.

And what about that time he did this as a bluegrass-style version on Letterman?

This song has really taken a beating over the years.

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Post by JGriffin » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:03 pm

alissa wrote:you guys.

don't be mean to larry.

he's just out of the loop. 8)
Wasn't intending to be mean, really.
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Post by sad iron » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:58 pm

well, posted in another thread already or not, I have to say that I am not convinced it's clocking. sounds like the guitars are tuned half a step or so down. An honest mistake made by a now-out-of-work guitar tech? Or something even more sinister: a conspiracy to make Van Halen look even more ridiculous than they will make themselves look during this tour.

I went as far as to compare the keys of the original recording with the keys from the live show and the live show keys were maybe a half step lower (Diamond Dave probably can't squeeze 'em out like he used to), but the pitch is definitely close, the guitars just a half or whole step lower. Like I said, guitar tech malfeasance.
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Post by johnny7 » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:25 pm

Tatertot wrote:Outstanding stuff there. It's actually worse [better] than the time I saw Roth do "Jump" live in Vegas (december 96) in a nearly-empty cabaret theater. He had session cats playing the material live, and quasi-nude pole dancers doing a risque dance. He was also pretty drunk from a snifter of brandy he had onstage on a little end table next to the mic stand, at least by the time he got to the "Jump" showstopper.

And what about that time he did this as a bluegrass-style version on Letterman?

This song has really taken a beating over the years.

I remember liking the Aztec Camera version of that song (from about 1985)
J

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Post by ;ivlunsdystf » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:04 pm

Or: (Don't ask why I know this) I'm pretty sure Van Hagar used to tune down 1/2 step or maybe even a whole step, which perhaps the current version of Van Halen does for some songs but not others. Then perhaps they were outfitted with the wrong guitars for that song. Although, as noted in that blog, they don't seem to be able to fake it by moving to different frets, ie they're not off by a round quantity of half steps.

I like how Eddie still wears baggy pants with sneakers and no shirt. I wonder if that Vernon Reid still wears a Body Glove wetsuit when he plays out.

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Post by JGriffin » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:45 pm

You're almost right: Van Halen used to tune down a half step to accomodate Dave's limited vocal range; after he quit they made a big deal out of saying they no longer had to do that with Sammy. Dozens of guitar magazine interviews from the period back this up. I remember Eddie saying it was nice to "not play rubberbands anymore."


As I said in the other thread, if they played a 44.1 file at 48 as the blogger claims, the pitch would go up but so would the tempo. "Jump" is at 129/130 bpm on the album, so it stands to reason the song would be performed live at that tempo as well. Playing back the studio recording at 48 pops the tempo up to around 140ish. But the "clocking error" live clip is at 130. So either Van Halen intended to perform "Jump" at a much slower tempo on this tour than they did on the record, which makes no sense, or the problem is not the result of incorrect sampling rates.

My theory is that Van Halen continue to perform their back catalog pre-1984 tuned down a half step, or even a full step, or some interval they establish by ear, and that for the songs that need to be accompanied by a keyboard (in this case, "And the Cradle Will Rock" and "Jump," both of which are in their current setlist) Eddie and Wolfie are handed guitars tuned to concert pitch. And in this instance, Eddie was handed the wrong guitar (especially as the bass is not discernably out of tune in the clip).

Not to bring Occam's razor into this, but given the technology questions (how would a file come to be played back at the wrong sampling rate in a touring rig anyway? Are they playing it off a DAT? A CD? ProTools? Is it a switchable-sampling rate unit and if it is, why would anyone change the setting mid-show?), the "wrong guitar" theory is much simpler and IMHO much more likely.
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Post by chris harris » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:54 am

I don't know.... the "wrong guitar" scenario could have been easily solved mid-song by handing him another guitar.

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Post by ctmsound » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:12 am

Sounds like an out of tune guitar.

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Post by JGriffin » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:30 am

subatomic pieces wrote:I don't know.... the "wrong guitar" scenario could have been easily solved mid-song by handing him another guitar.
probably, but the band and crew not choosing that remedy does not mean it didn't go down that way.
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