Do I need a vintage drum set?

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

???????
resurrected
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:15 pm

Post by ??????? » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:38 am

early 70s Ludwigs are great, but I dont know about the "rockstar" line. Wasn't that a lower line? Are you sure they are from '72? I didn't think they made those til quite a bit later on. Something doesn't add up. Pics?

Speaking of lower line drums, Ludwig had a line in the 70s called "Ludwig Standard." These are really cool drums that can still be had for a song in most finishes. Well under your budget. The scoop on them is that the shells are identical to Ludwig's other lines, but the hardware and lug casings are imported. I think the drums were assembled in USA but I'm not sure. The cool thing about them is that they had some of the coolest finishes ever on any drums. Finishes that were not available from any other company or any other line (ludwig included). The wraps are so cool that some of the rarer ones are getting to actually be worth pretty big money, but it's unpredictable. Any of the more popular finishes are still real real cheap though and still way cool.

Here's a catalog image from '71 that shows some of the finishes:

Image
Last edited by ??????? on Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dave-H
pushin' record
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:23 am
Location: St. Joseph IL.

Post by Dave-H » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:52 am

I love & own vintage & new drums & for that 70's funk sound I would say that heads tuning & dampening are the most important thing. From what I have read the drums at Motown were almost never messed with as far as tuning or changing heads. The drums are very dead sounding. I would get Evans oil filled heads for batter heads & experiment with Resonant heads & to be most realistic I would probably remove the bottom heads. If you do remove the bottom heads be real careful that the lug inserts don't rattle.
Put a big old blanket in the bass drum & there U go.
Good luck :!: :!:
Dave Huffman
Will Drum For Money

???????
resurrected
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:15 pm

Post by ??????? » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:18 am

...Unless by funk you mean Clyde Stubblefield on the James Brown records, most Bernard Purdie, and similar stuff. If that's the case, the above instructions won't get you there at all. Maybe you better be more specific. The most Clyde-like bass drum I ever heard was the 18x12 on a vintage Ludwig Jazzette kit.

Dave-H
pushin' record
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:23 am
Location: St. Joseph IL.

Post by Dave-H » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:26 am

I am just going from what I have read & experienced having played in funk bands in the 70's & a few years ago. :D
Will Drum For Money

User avatar
I'm Painting Again
zen recordist
Posts: 7086
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 2:15 am
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Post by I'm Painting Again » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:44 am

Beneficial wrote:Any opinions on a 1972 Ludwig Rock Star set in good shape? It looks like the general consensus seems to point more towards mid 60's Slingerland or Rogers sets... or Sonor.
like I said it doesn't matter as long as the individual kit sounds good..you will get same size and make drums from the same year one serial # apart and one will smoke and the other will suck..

Beneficial
pushin' record
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:38 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Post by Beneficial » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:14 am

really? wow that's crazy. So I guess buying drums off of ebay is a total gamble even if the sets is in great condition.

User avatar
kearnsalot
ass engineer
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:00 pm

Post by kearnsalot » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:18 am

Beneficial wrote:really? wow that's crazy. So I guess buying drums off of ebay is a total gamble even if the sets is in great condition.
Same goes for horns. I have literally played the exact same model of horn and had 2 completely different sounds. When the tone is being generated by the actual material of the horn and not pick-ups and circuitry it's a real crap shoot. I suggest checking craigslist so you can find a local seller and go try them out.

???????
resurrected
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:15 pm

Post by ??????? » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:15 pm

it's not a total crapshoot since they will be worth the same even if they don't sound great, so you could just sell 'em back.

It's a crapshoot to a degree even trying out in person most times, because unless someone is a dealer they will rarely put new/good heads on the drums for you to try them out. Often the heads will have splits in them, dents, be covered in duct tape, totally shot or just a totally different type than you would use. Like I use coated ambassadors and I bought a kit that had silver dot heads on it. Would trying it out tell me anything? Probably not. And this may vary from location to location but around here, if someone is selling something relatively cheap they are not going to go take kindly to you sitting in their house bashing away on drums for half an hour. Maybe I'm just too polite! :D

But this says nothing of the fact that many classified-ads sets are missing a hoop or two, are set up with different muffling than you would use, are missing some tension rods, etc etc etc. At that point you might as well just buy from the internet! :shock:

mc437
pushin' record
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:03 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Contact:

Post by mc437 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:02 pm

I have owned many vintage drums sets, from Gretsch, Slingerland, Rogers, Ludwig, Premier, and Sonor. I have never had one that sounded like "crap." Maybe I didn't like one set's sound as much as another, but none have sounded like crap. I've never had a vintage kit that I couldn't work with and get a good, usable sound out of. Ebay is fine for buying vintage drums. As long as there are detailed pics, the seller has good feedback, and all your questions get answered, then try it. If you don't like the sound, then resell and buy another.

???????
resurrected
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 6:15 pm

Post by ??????? » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:23 pm

I've heard a couple Ludwig 12" toms that were sorta dead and one Ludwig bass drum that didn't totally float my boat, but other than that my experience has been similar to that of mc437.

Dave-H
pushin' record
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:23 am
Location: St. Joseph IL.

Post by Dave-H » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:18 pm

If any of you really like talking vintage drums & drums in general come over to drumforum.org We have a great membership over there with lot's of vintage drum knowledge. We have a lot of fun talking drums & we have a couple of Forum meets in Indy every year & we do lot's of horse trading & just have lot of funchecking out each others sets & stuff.Come over & say Hello! :idea:
Will Drum For Money

firby
takin' a dinner break
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:20 pm
Location: Cincinnati

Post by firby » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:28 am

I have a maple stop sign badge gretsch kit that brings that type of sound exactly.
I'm a bad man!

chetatkinsdiet
buyin' a studio
Posts: 870
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:36 pm
Location: dallas texas

Post by chetatkinsdiet » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:41 am

I've had probably a hundred vintage kits and has been stated above, they're all good. Some though are great and can't be topped with any modern kit that i've ever heard. That's really a biased statement as I prefer the sound of vintage kits. Anyway, there are some very expensive vintage drums (gretsch, swivo rogers, etc) and some less expensive stuff (70s Ludwigs, Big R Rogers, etc). You just have to know where to look for the deals. We all have stories of running across that great vintage kit in a killer color for a few hundred dollars, but those days are definitely ending soon. I really feel like the vintage drum market is going through the roof in the next few years. Just look at the price of the RB Gretsch and Swivo Rogers in the better colors. I see $2K to $3K that are actually selling. Crazy.
Anyway, some of the deals to look for would be the aforementioned Ludwig Standards which are the same shells with MIJ lugs. The cool thing about these lugs is that the hole patterns match the regular Ludwig lugs, so you can swap them out and turn them into a set of Ludwig Classics in a very cool color.
Also, the Big R Rogers drums are a steal as well. If you get some of the earlier ones, the shells are the same. Jasper shells with reinforcement rings. Only with the XP8 did they change to something different. But, those are probably the first modern shells, Keller 8 ply solid maple. Not a bad thing either, just not in the realm of collectable.
Don't shy away from the Ludwig 6ply drums either. I've got a set of them in natural maple that are simply stunning. Although, the 3 ply drums are the sound of Ludwig that most folks are looking for.
There are tons of other kits to look for depending on the sizes you need....Ludwig Clubdates, Rogers Tower and any other single lug drums. They were originally student kits, but sound amazing.

later,

m
The only true great mic on this planet is the Shure SM-57. It is the most consistant in not totally sucking of anything ever built. All other mics are "application dependant".

-- Fletcher

User avatar
I'm Painting Again
zen recordist
Posts: 7086
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 2:15 am
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Post by I'm Painting Again » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:31 pm

chetatkinsdiet wrote:I've had probably a hundred vintage kits and has been stated above, they're all good.
m
Good is subjective so you can't say they are all good with any universal meaning..

wood warps..metal rusts..etc etc etc..

AntLockyer
audio school graduate
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:57 pm

Post by AntLockyer » Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:43 pm

For my tastes a keystone ludwig kit in good shape sounds great. I like Yamaha but the good ones are very spendy, same with Premier that I used at drum academy, the cheap ones were bad but the good ones ever so good.

Look for a set of second hand Yamahas that maybe don't look so good but are stil in decent shape. A friend of mine has a set from way back and they are so nice to record.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 55 guests