Do I need a vintage drum set?

Beneficial · Post by **Beneficial** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:59 pm

I'm looking for a drum set with a big warm tone to it. I like the drum sound on old funk records, and on a lot of other late sixties/early seventies recordings. I know the majority of that sound comes from the playing, recording, and engineering techniques (among other things) but I know vintage sets can sound a lot different than newer sets.

Is it necessary to spring for a quality vintage set or can this tone and feel be achieved with a newer, inexpensive set? I'm thinking this might be the case as long as the drums are made from a wood that produces a warmer tone like maple or mahogany.

Just some information, I've been using a 90's hand me down set that sounds like crap. Can't get a good sound out of the kick drum no matter what I do. It's time for me to get something better. I'm a beginner drummer, but I'm more so a producer looking for cool sounds. I'm tracking to tape, shitty is pretty style. I'm looking to drop like $600 max which I know will limit my options. I appreciate any advice. Thanks

DGoody · Post by **DGoody** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:13 pm

My advice would be to get an older kit in decent shape...... the reality is that newer inexpensive kits are shit. Even the "name" brands produce shit at higher price tags.

If you can find an old set of Ludwigs, from the transition period (1969-1971), you'll have a great set of drums. Also, mid 60's Slingerlands are my faves, as well as Rogers.

The key is to make sure they sound good obviously........ barring that option, make sure the rims are not out of round, make sure the drums edges are okay, otherwise drum heads will never seat properly. Make sure the hardware works, etc........

You should not have a problem finding a good set of old drums for $600, or a fraction more. All my kits have been had (even recently) for less than that, and they're all amazing.

mc437 · Post by **mc437** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:38 pm

Round.Badge.Gretsch. But with the $600 price cap, you're going to have a heck of a time finding good Gretsch's.

??????? · Post by **???????** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:48 pm

Look for old Slingerlands or Ludwigs. Those can still be had in the right (read: wrong) finishes for within your price range. On this very forum recently someone got a pretty cool 60s Slingerland kit for exactly $600. You can also find old Sonor drums for cheap and they will be good.

But the sooner the better. Vintage drum prices are slowly but surely creeping up there, to the point where all Gretsch Camco and Rogers are already very expensive compared to just a few years ago.

My advice is look for Ludwig and Slingerand (even ludwig has been creeping up there) and some other brands like script-logo Rogers in the less sought-after finishes like Butcher Block. "Big R" Rogers are generally not regarded as being as nice as the script logo versions and so if you are looking at those, try before you buy.

Good luck. Also remember that the sound on a lot of those records is the sound of SMALL bass drums with either two intact heads (no hole) or no front head at all. And less-than-modern levels of muffling (i.e. no pillow inside, maybe a felt strip on the batter side).

honkyjonk · Post by **honkyjonk** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:34 pm

I have an older Gretsch stop sign kit which I love but I wonder sometimes if it isn't like 99% heads/tuning/player. I know you've probably heard that a lot, but finding out that the daptones dude uses a Yamaha set is kind of mind-boggling.
At least that's what it appears to be here:
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=49185

Edit: I guess you can't really even tell what drums he plays, but in most of the shots in the Sharon Jones video (the other one) he's playing the kit with the Yamaha head, so . . .

Anyway, doesn't matter, cause it's not like you're going to find a Yamaha set for cheaper than an old Ludwig set.

inverseroom · Post by **inverseroom** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:04 pm

brad347 wrote:script-logo Rogers in the less sought-after finishes like Butcher Block

I know drum geeks hate this, but I think it's cool, in a hopelessly dorky way.

markmeat · Post by **markmeat** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:15 pm

I got a 6-piece Slingerland kit from '65 off some kid for $100 earlier this year... they sound SOOOOOO much better than my late '90s Tama Rockstars... sadly, eBay is a good source for drums on the cheap if you buy them one at a time (not complete kits)... $600 is very reasonable for a good old (although maybe not matching) set of drums.

MEAT

I'm Painting Again · Post by **I'm Painting Again** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:03 pm

I have a premier signia maple kit that smokes..they do make modern drums that sound as good if not better than older drums.."older drum" sounding drums have a more round big bearing edge..that is the main thing if you want an old school sound..that and the sizes of the drums and heads/tuning, etc.

judge drums on an individual set basis NOT ever ever on looks or reputation..there are expensive vintage drums that sell for bags of cash that sound like crap..

listen around only when you HEAR what you want..then buy..

also and I'm sure I don't need to say it but 99% of the sound is from the player..anyone who has heard a good player and then a less good player on the same kit knows the difference..

LeedyGuy · Post by **LeedyGuy** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:49 pm

I think that size has a lot to do with it. I was wondering why I couldn't get that old jazzy sound out of my Pearl Masters Customs, the 1st tom especially then I saw some pictures of Art Blakey and Max Roach and even old Jo Jones pics and they look like they are playing 13 or 14 inch toms that are only about 5 or 6 inches deep!

On the other hand, I talked to someone the other day who told me "just put coated ambassadors on your entire set. top and bottom." I recently changed my bottom heads to clear ambassadors, but it was time to get the DeJohnette signature heads off the toms (a 10 rack and 14 floor) and I put coated ambassadors on the tops. I haven't had a lot of time to bang on them, but I have a gig Thursday night so I'll be sure to report back.

I have a Fiberskyn on the front of my 18" kick and the original head on the back, and it sounds awesome, but not really vintage. More fat and low end-y but not with a lot of attack. Coated ambassador is next on that drum, but I'm not sick of the Fiberskyn yet.

-Ken

Beneficial · Post by **Beneficial** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:43 pm

Thanks for all the information. I was at a concert Saturday and the jazz drummer had that same yamaha kit that's in that dap-tones video. Sounded amazing. I'm thinking it must be pretty damn expensive.

For you guys who own vintage sets... do you usually put new heads on them? If so I'm guessing most of the sound is coming from the older construction and woods used and not the vintage heads themselves?

T-rex · Post by **T-rex** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:21 pm

The best sounding kit I have ever played was a sonar kit that the guy paid $400 for. It sounded so damn good I tried to buy it on the spot but he wasn't having it. Anyway it was a 60's kit, 18", 14" and 12" and just sounded "vintage" and good.

??????? · Post by **???????** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:01 pm

there's really something special about calf heads. But they're a pain in the ass, often more trouble than they're worth. But DAMN is that a sound.

In the interest of drum porn, here's a pic of my Slingerland kit. It wasn't too much money either. It has the sought-after 14" floor tom and a pretty sought after finish. It's a 20 12 and 14. If you want a 16" floor tom you could pay even less. I don't know exactly how much I paid because it was a trade deal where I traded a bunch of little stuff to this guy for it. But it wasn't much.

LeedyGuy · Post by **LeedyGuy** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:19 am

brad347 wrote:there's really something special about calf heads. But they're a pain in the ass, often more trouble than they're worth. But DAMN is that a sound.

In the interest of drum porn, here's a pic of my Slingerland kit. It wasn't too much money either. It has the sought-after 14" floor tom and a pretty sought after finish. It's a 20 12 and 14. If you want a 16" floor tom you could pay even less. I don't know exactly how much I paid because it was a trade deal where I traded a bunch of little stuff to this guy for it. But it wasn't much.

That is really cool looking and it sorta proves my point. Check out that first tom: looks like a 12" that is about 9" deep. Most drums that you see around are deeper that. That is a "vintage" size.

??????? · Post by **???????** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:27 am

12x8 14x14 20x14

Beneficial · Post by **Beneficial** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:10 am

Any opinions on a 1972 Ludwig Rock Star set in good shape? It looks like the general consensus seems to point more towards mid 60's Slingerland or Rogers sets... or Sonor.

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Do I need a vintage drum set?

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