Thinking of putting together a portable recording setup.

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Thinking of putting together a portable recording setup.

Post by rwc » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:47 pm

Here's what I'm thinking.

I am looking to spend maybe 6K on a mobile recording setup down the line, maybe almost 9 months from now, but I'd like to plan for it now.

Here's what I am thinking of. My experience mostly resides in Logic. It's also very very cheap with all the plugins, and I can use any hardware I want. ProTools is out automatically because I am forced to use their hardware, and the stock plugins suck. I don't want to spend tons of money on plugins to make up for crappy stock stuff. I also seem to work better in Logic. So I was thinking of getting a macbook and logic 8 for $2100 or so. Logic is cheaper with everything I need than ProTools is with bare stock plugins, and the hardware is a whole 'nother story. I don't need compatibility with other studios at the price point/demographic I'm aiming for.

Then an Apogee Ensemble, and a Presonus Digimax for some extra inputs. A bunch of SM58s that I can screw the head off of to make into 57s when needed, a few small diaphram MXL condensers since I have good experience with them and know what they sound like. I was thinking mostly used on the mics.. or is this not a good idea? I was also considering throwing two sm81s in for the finer instruments that I may record.

The only issue now that glares through is with headphone mixes. I'd probably need the ability to make more than one to suit the whole band. I'm not sure if that's something I should be worrying about at the hobbyist level. I could bus things around in Logic and then have drums, guitars, vocals, bass, or sax, drums, bass, and then put it into a mixer, but I'd need something that hooks up to multiple small mixers. this seems like it'd be expensive. The apogee has 8 outs, so it wouldn't be impossible. Those Nemesis things big studios use are very impressive, and seem perfect for this. The downside being it probably costs more for one of those systems than my whole budget. :(

The second is with HDs. If I had an external HD for recording tracks to, I'd still have the issue of HD death for the OS drive. I'm scared to record with any computer that doesn't have RAID 1 for the OS drive. If the HD died for the OS, with RAID 1, it wouldn't blink and would read/write to 1 drive instead of 2. But with one OS drive, if it dies, then I have to tell the group after all the work "sorry, I can't record you', and that would be terrible.

Those digital consoles, is all of the information such as the OS and effects for them stored on the HD, or in some ROM that has no moving parts? If so this would be more valuable than a laptop since I wouldn't have to worry about that kind of death, but it'd also be a huge step down from Logic in editing, mixing, and general flexibility. If the HD I am recording to dies I could just pop another one in, but I'm not that sure I could do that with a laptop unless I had 2 OS drives that were identical to each other. I've used a Yamaha AW4416 before a couple of times, it seemed like a real pain in the ass compared to Logic, but also seemed built perfectly for portable recording application. And the amount of signal processing in the box was amazing.

For monitors, I use Thiels at my house. They're a home stereo/audiophile speaker company but they aim for the same things may pro audio companies advertise but never deliver, like flat frequency response and time/phase coherency. I was thinking of investing in some room treatment for better home mixing. I have several sets of good headphones I could use to provide rough mixes for clients(Sennheiser HD280, Grado SR125, Shure E3c) and then give a free polished mix I do at home in a more "proper" environment for nothing after the fact.

I've had 2 internships, and am at the second one now. One at a crappy studio that I had some opportunity to record at, but not enough for it to be worth it being a ghetto, terribly/not at all run studio. Another at an absolutely amazing studio where I never have the opportunity to sit in on sessions if I finish my work and show interest in it, regardless of the full time free work I do.

I've come to the conclusion that I'm never going to learn a thing from internships, or if I do, the relationship of stuff learned to time spent will be close to nil. I may learn how that particular studio does things, but the whole concept of learning from watching other people work seems to be over. One of the people who has been here for a while even said it, "This isn't a teaching hospital." Little studios are too ghetto to learn anything from unless you have the opportunity to do what I want to do now(except they'll expect 70 hrs/week free work in return), and larger facilities seem to only care about pleasing freelancers. The idea of teaching underlings seems to have been outsourced completely. I don't see how I can learn much from a place where even if I get a full time minimum wage job, the most my involvement will be fixing up lounges, lugging other people's gear cases around, and bringing microphones/gear into the rooms for freelancers and going back to work.

I record people in rehearsal spaces in my spare time if the equipment is available at the space or provided by the band who has no clue how to use it. I've been doing this as a hobby, I ask for say $30 for the whole thing if it only takes a few hours or $50-$100 if it takes 2-3 days. I make it affordable enough so that people don't look at the clock, I avoid charging an hourly rate. I want to keep it fun but also get something done and get enough money to eat and catch a ride home in the process.

I've learned more in one day of doing this than in all the time I spent interning at the awesome, world class facility, and the crappier place put together. I think this just makes so much more sense. Learn how to record by recording. I never understood how unpaid maltreated slave --> engineer career path taught one anything unless the engineers had interest in teaching those who applied themselves. I learn by doing things, messing up, finding a way around it so I don't do it next time, and then doing it again. I don't see the opportunity to do that at a place where the rooms are 1.5-3.5K/day. I've been told there's fewer opportunities to learn because of how there are few staff engineers nowadays unless you learn yourself, and this seems to be the best way to do it.

I don't see any other way of learning how to do this. The idea of relying on the chance that someone else being nice enough to let me sit in and watch him, and maybe tell me something, seems like such a gamble. There's too high a chance to do a ton of work and have no learning opportunities. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I find out I am wrong, I can probably sell everything and get off close to where I started.

This thread is for suggestions, so by all means feel free to rip apart these ideas. The main goal of this is to learn by doing as much recording as possible.
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Post by GooberNumber9 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:02 am

I know you just wrote that whole post based around a laptop for recording, I just thought I'd throw out the idea of a dedicated hard disk recorder like the Alesis ADAT HD24 for this purpose. Put it in a good rolling case and pair it up with a decent mixer (a digital mixer like a Yamaha 01V96 is a good match) and you've got a great studio in a small space. It's hard to make multiple takes on this rig, and you don't get MIDI or click tracks.

Just a thought.

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Post by Jeff White » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:18 am

If you are planning on recording live shows or full bands in their spaces I would highly suggest going with the previous poster's thoughts regarding an Alesis HD24 setup. I owned one for 3 1/2 years and let me tell you that thing is rock solid. The only reason why I sold mine for a Powerbook was because I wasn't recording full bands (just overdubs or up to 12 tracks simultaneously) and wanted to work exclusively in Digital Performer AND I use it for graphic design. If I was recording live shows I would *definitely* invest in another HD24. Set and forget.

The cool thing is that you can do both. You can go with a MBP and Logic and a nice interface like the Apogee/RME/Metric Halo combined with an ADAT linked multi-channel preamp AND then pick up an HD24 if you are recording 24 tracks live all of the time. The ADAT lightpipe features of both the interface and the multi preamp will be a nice front end for the HD24.

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Post by rwc » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:44 am

Wow. Thanks for the quick suggestions! :D

Well, the Logic + alesis/digital mixer combo doesn't make too much sense to me. Then I would be paying $2100 for a Logic setup that would not be used for more than 15% of what I want to do(some basic editing and multitake stuff). At this budget I can't justify getting stuff that isn't going to be used to its full potential. It'd have to be one or the other. A digital mixer and the HD24, or the macbook and logic.

I am kind of cautious about a digital mixer. It takes me a while to become 99.9% comfortable with a certain method of mixing and recording when I will be doing it by myself, and I've gained this with Logic, but I don't know if I would be able to do this on a digital console. And even if I did get to know it, if it wasn't the way I worked best, that'd be weird.

But it's definitely something I am going to consider.

Honestly right now I'm not sure what I am going to record. Anytime I record rehearsals I have no idea what kind of stuff I am recording, I fall into the opportunity and I never quite remember how. I don't have any "hookups" or regular client listing, because I don't have the equipment or space. Only when that is provided in some way do I get the opportunity. Ideally I'd find a way to record all sorts of stuff that one can call music at spaces that allow me to do so. If I offer the equipment and knowledge to do so I'm hoping the opportunity will present itself.

Thanks again for the help.
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Post by Jeff White » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:03 pm

If you are not doing large "one take to make or break" sessions, as in live 16 to 24 track recording of bands in clubs, I'm sure that Logic on a MBP will be really nice. If I had to choose one of the other I would do the Logic setup, as it gives you the most power for editing.

I can easily record 16+ simultaneous tracks at 24-bit / 44.1 kHz with my 1.5 GHz Powerbook G4 and Digital Performer. The key for me is using the card slot for a second firewire bus and recording to an external drive via FW800.

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Post by tdbajus » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:07 pm

Just wondering how you manage to use any RAID config at all on a laptop- do you do a software stripe with an external drive? I appreciate your commitment to mission critical equipment :)

As far as hardware goes, I have not used any of the Apogee stuff yet, but my 5 year old Metric Halo 2882 still rocks my world. I was able to easily record 8 simultaneous tracks at 24bit/44.1 for at least two hours, no problems at all, using just a 1ghz G4 Powerbook, the MIO powered only through the FW400 bus, and a seperately powered FR400 drive looped throught the MIO, and velcro'd to the top. Sounded great, ran like a top, and 5 years later, i think it has crashed maybe 2x. The best piece of digital audio hardware I've ever owned.

Now that I'm running it at 96K, my old G4 laptop couldn't deal (hooked it up to a 2x2.7 G5), but I wonder if the new intel MacBooks could handle that rate.
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Post by Raizesindigena » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:28 pm

I'm looking into to buying a rig like this as well...

The only prob w/ the mac book is no express card
prob w/ macbook pro price...

Regardless it seems intel mac is the best option if you can afford it... Especially if your using Logic 7 or Studio

I think I'm going with the Metric Halo 2882 instead of the Ensemble. Although I haven't made up my mind for sure...? I'm trying to build mine so that I can use it in bigger studios for tracking and then take to home studio for editing and mixing. With the flexibility of being able to do small ensembles, overdubs, etc wherever I want. I really want to rack and case a TL Audio Tubetracker M1 12 as a front end... It would probably live at my home studio but I could take it to other studios, spaces, but that's not so practical... or mobile... or cheap...?

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Post by rwc » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:09 pm

I have no idea how I'd do RAID with a laptop. I doubt it's possible.

That scares me. The idea of the OS drive clicking while recording a band, or small orchestra of people 25 miles from home. "Oops, sorry, I can't record you now" isn't ever going to cut it. I'd kill if that happened to me.

Can you make the Alesis write to both drives at once? If so, I'd consider it a much more viable option. If I'm going standalone recorder for reliability, I don't want to rely on a single consumer level IDE drive.
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Post by rwc » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:57 am

Thanks again to everyone. :)

Right now I'm looking at the Yamaha 4416. I've used this extensively in the past. It had a hard learning curve, but since I've used it before, I should be able to pick up on it again.

I can get this thing for like $500.. a macbook + interface + pres or alesis HD24 + pres + digital mixer would cost a ton more. The editing is a joke on the unit, but I'm thinking, now I have more cash to spend on the stuff that has more influence on the sound(the mics). and the stock effects on that unit were kickass as far as I remember.

Also lugging a laptop, interface, and the pre unit all around NY seems a little far fetched. heh.

Has anyone here used this to a real portable recording standard? I've only used it for mixing prerecorded and, on one occasion, for a short live recording that had no stops and starts.

Thanks again. :D
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Post by rwc » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:04 am

edit: nevermind
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Post by Danly » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:31 pm

It's great that you want to start working freelance for yourself, but if you can afford it, I'd recommend continuing to intern. Find a different place where they are happy to let you throw up mics and experiment with gear after you have finished your mopping/making coffee/changing lightbulbs. Don't give up on that side yet, try to find a more positive atmosphere where they teach you things.
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Post by Jeff White » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:46 pm

Can you make the Alesis write to both drives at once? If so, I'd consider it a much more viable option. If I'm going standalone recorder for reliability, I don't want to rely on a single consumer level IDE drive.
I'm sure that any system that you look at will record to a single hard drive at once. The key to recording safely (live event) is to simultaneously record to two systems at once. Feed all of the audio to a splitter and into two separate recorders. The key to recording safely on any system at any event or session is to make frequent backups. The band's going to lunch? Backup. Taking a break? Backup. End of session? Backup over three drives. Editing/Mixing? Back up over three drives.

The only way that you can prevent a disaster in a live situation is to record to two separate systems at once. If you have the cash and the patience and want to record everything that you ever do this way, knock yourself out.

I've been using two Macs with Digital Performer and have been recording records, poetry readings, ADR for film, remote sessions, live recordings, etc and I always immediately backup everything to three drives. I do the same with my graphic design work and with the accounting at the small business where I work as a graphic designer.

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Post by megajoe » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:59 pm

You could get something like a 1TB external that can be set to raid 1

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Post by ctmsound » Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:49 am

Tascam X48. Editing capabilities with VST support.

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Post by b3groover » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:26 am

One question: Are you planning to take this rig into clubs and record bands live? If so, you need splitters.

I used to try to record my band's performances with a portable rig without splitters. The mics were being used for both the PA and the recording. Even with direct outs on the mixer, anything the sound guy does to a track (EQ, level changes, etc.) gets recorded and messes up the recording.

Just a thought.
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