A 57 on the grill....yeah right !!!!

[mcRack]

How do some guys get a great guitar sound just by putting a 57 right on the grill ? I`m recording a boogie band these days and today i got into some serious problems getting a fantastic sounding jcm 800 to translate to my speakers. I started out with the 57 as usual but didn`t even get close to a good Angus sound...!! The 609and nt3 didn`t do it either.
The 58 without the windscreen actually sounded the best!!!!
Well,the truth is that it would take me an hour of tweaking before i really got there. I actually had to find the best sounding speakers sweat spot (u know,headphones) and get the volume right(find the volume where the cab begins to play) to get it just right.
This brings up the question, are you guys trying to get the amp to translate good to the monitors when using a 57 or do you just pry to good for a good sound when "putting a 57 on the grill" ???

[apropos of nothing]

I always capture guitar on two tracks. Yaknow, whatever is handy: the LDC back a little and off-axis, or a DI parallel, or whatever. One signal can be alright, but you have to pretty sure of what you'er going for, right off,and then nail it. I like to leave myself just little slop for later.

[Mane1234]

That whole 57 right on the grill is not only a little cliche but a bit misleading as well. You never hear about any other part of the signal chain like then I run it through a Neve or API preamp, then I carve out a little upper midrange because 57s sound a little honky, and then I toss in some parellel compression with my big fat tube compressor or my Urei 1176 so on and so on....Personally I haven't used a 57 on a guitar in years but no matter which mic I'm using the process is the same and you already described it. Find the sweet spot from the speaker and get your sound happening from the source first. I find myself using Audix mics on guitars these days. The i5 or D3 and then back one of those up with a ribbon a foot or two back. Season to taste after.

[mcRack]

yeah...good pres and comps certanly helps alot I don`t have api,neve or ssl`s but my old teac model 15 mixer pres sounds really good i get some nice vintage vibes out of it.
The funny thing about good micing technique is that great balance in the sound
can be achieved without too manny eq tweaks. I just gotta thank slipperman for the tip on recording distorted guitars,it has improved my skills dramatically just in a couple of days

[SkullChris]

I just gotta thank slipperman for the tip on recording distorted guitars,it has improved my skills dramatically just in a couple of days

Care to indulge us? -(hris

[mcRack]

hehe...

[fossiltooth]

I always capture guitar on two tracks.

Same here.

Could be a 4047 and a 57... or an i5 and a royer... or an m201 and a 414. Whatever works.

Don't get me wrong, a single 57 can work. On guitars, they generally sound fairly tight and constrained, and they're not for everything, but it can be just what the doctor ordered given the right circumstances. The pre can be a big factor, but he amp sound is the biggest part of the equation. Remember, a single 57 won't reproduce it faithfully... This isn't necessarily a bad thing... but it can be.

Oh yeah... and don't forget to put some cans on and move the sucker around. It's never, never ever enough to just stick it in front of the amp and hope for the best... unless you get lucky. Don't expect to get lucky more than 15-20% of the time.

[drumsound]

I just don't use 57s...EVER!

[rwc]

No close micing.

If it sounds best when I am standing next to the garbage can to toss a candy wrapper away, why put a mic right in front of it and spend hours stressing away at how to get the sound of it while I was there, when I can just record it with a mic where I was? XY n the spot where I was standing is what I like to use.

If it sounds good close miced, then I work with it that way. But if it doesn't, then I accept the fact that for this song, and these instruments, in that room with that band, it won't sound good that way and move on. When you close mic stuff you're getting 5% of the sound of the instrument, once I understood that it got easier. If the band sucks and can't all play at the same time without one person fucking up, I'll just have the guitar player play after. If they're good, I'll just record another take when they mess up, and have them play altogether.

Sometimes I'll move the amps around. Like rhythm guitar facing forward and solo facing sideways, but have his playing louder in the room. This always gives me a cool balance I can never get when mixing because I'm an amateur mixer.

[RefD]

depends on the amp and guitar and speaker and cables and pedals (if any) and humidity and room/hallway/garage/bathroom/closet and strings and other crap like who is playing and what he/she had for their previous meal and if they're getting laid currently and did they actually learn the part...

but it usually boils down to modded 219, Blue Ball (which ONLY works up against the damned grill!), crusty old 635a or, umm...Nady Starpower 3.

once in a blazing blue moon i will put down a guitar track with my POD Pro, and then it's usually not a featured part.

i have never felt compelled to own a 57.

[micyourbrain]

works great for me

I use it with a PE Oktavamod MK-319

The trick to the 57 is knowing how to set the amp so that it sounds great in the way that will work well with the 57. Put your ear up to your amp - if your amp doesn't sound good like that start by fixing it there. Then adjust it for a balanced sound with the 57 pointing straight against the grill cloth pointing at the speaker dust guard. I've tried using it off axis but I believe in the legendary straight up against the grill pointing at the center of the speaker.

I think people put it up against the grill so that the proximity effect in combination with the hump in the high end make a scooped mids sound. If you're trying to get the fattest distorted electric guitar tone ever - use something else. If you have a fender amp and guitar set clean with reverb it usually sounds rad in the mix of a band with 5 people or more. On its own - yes, it's thin. If there's only a few instruments, and you want to make it sound bigger, you can add another mic like the MK-319 or a ribbon mic (like a my modded 205) for a bass boost.

[LeedyGuy]

Put your ear up to your amp

Don't do that. You'll be sorry. Just monitor the 57 with some good iso-type headphones that you can trust and then just move it around until it sounds good and that stuffy thing that a 57 does so well is gone. I have a record (okay...its a CD) coming out soon-ish and everything on the guitars is a 57 on an old Harmony amp or an early 80's Champ. It sounds killer. I find that I like the 57 better on an amp that isn't real bass heavy though. For something like a Mesa or a Marshall, I generally prefer the 609. Good advice about sorta aiming for the cone a little off axis.

Oh, and get a Sytek or a PM1000. That will help a holy shitload.

[RefD]

*pulls PM1000 out of damp basement and fires it up with an extinguisher handy*

[JWL]

Generally speaking I use 2 mics on an amp as well. Usually a dynamic (either a 57 or a CAD TSM411) up close (usually not centered on the speaker straight in, I generally like to angle the dynamic a bit) to get some "buzz", and then either a ribbon or a LD condenser. The ribbon usually goes right up on the amp as well, the condenser will usually be back a bit (a foot or so, give or take).

The important thing is to always find the sweet spots for the mics... and then make sure the 2 signals are in good phase alignment.

And yes, Slipperman's deranged rantings about recording guitars is great.

[JASIII]

I almost never use a 57 for amps or anything else for that matter. I'm liking a CAD Trion 7000 ribbon about 8 inches to a foot off the grill. And yes, a PM1000 can sound real nice, esp with some minor eq tweaking. That's one thing I love about the PM1000's is the limited eq you have to work with, fixed low band at 100Hz, only like 4 mid settings and a 10khz hi-band, that's really all you need.