Eliminating honkiness when recording 8" guitar speaker

wren · Post by **wren** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:17 pm

Hi there, first-time poster, long-time lurker.

I was just recording some incidental/between-scene music for a play, and because only a couple simple little 2-minute things would be electric, I figured it'd be better to use a small amp than to lug my rack setup + 2x12/1x15 down to my house from my band's practice spot. I borrowed an old modified tweed Fender Pro Junior from my mom's boyfriend (I have no idea how exactly it was modded), mic'd it up with a 57 beta (just off the center of the speaker, about 2-to-4" off the grill cloth) and set to work, but no matter what I did, I could't avoid a really extreme "honk" somewhere in between 400hz-1.3khz (it varied depending on where I moved the mic).

I just ended up recording it the way it was and then did some subtractive EQing/multiband compressing once it was recorded, but the result still wasn't ideal, and I don't like having to do that. As a guitarist who is really anal about tone, it bugs me when I'm not able to record the sound I want to record without further processing, especially when the signal coming out of the amp was sounding OK (not great, but passable). I'm guessing that it had something to do with the amp's 8" speaker (I'm not used to 8" speakers at all). I've borrowed/recorded with this amp in the past, and I've noticed its tendency to "honk" before, but it'd never been that pronounced, annoying, or distracting.

Any ideas? Anyone have any tricks for recording an 8" speaker that differ from how you typically record other sizes? Different mic (I know a 57 is naturally honky to an extent), different placement? Or do 8" speakers just inherently do that?

Thanks in advance!

roscoenyc · Post by **roscoenyc** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Fender Pro Jr. has a 10" speaker

syrupcore · Post by **syrupcore** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:00 pm

you sure the honkiness isn't coming from the amp? Like, if you get the amp on table and put your ear where the mic should be and play, is it a honk free listening experience?

Did you try moving the amp to another spot in the room?

philbo · Post by **philbo** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:43 pm

If the mic picks up honk, it is because there is honk there to pick up. Try using another amp, or connect a different speaker to the amp. Or fire the honky playing it & hire a 'brother' to play the guitar part. (sorry bout that last one...)
________
Blonde tubes

mjau · Post by **mjau** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:41 pm

My guess is that whatever honkiness is coming from the amp, the beta 57 is exaggerating it, so I'd start with a mic that isn't quite as truncated sounding if you can...maybe a LDC moved off the amp.
My trusty beyer m69 is my anti-honk guitar amp mic. Seems to work when a 57 or whatever is too mid-rangey.

RefD · Post by **RefD** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:56 pm

i was gonna say...LDC pulled back 2 to 4 feet...maybe find a nice sounding spot in the room and use an omni instead?

if it's a cranked maybe turn down a bit?

cos a "bark" can turn into a "honk" real fast on a small amp with a small speaker.

also, get the amp off the floor and away from the wall.

i have gotten some pretty good non-honking sounds off a 4" speaker a few times, so it can be done with an 8" speaker for certain.

i'll STFU now.

kayagum · Post by **kayagum** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:53 am

What other mic positions did you try? Believe it or not, I'd try it dead center from 1 foot.

Also, what kind of guitar are you playing, which pickup(s) are you using, and what pedals are you using? Don't blame the amp when it's your guitar, or worse yet, you. I've had a Pro Junior for years, and "honky" is not one of the first 10 adjectives I would use for it.

??????? · Post by **???????** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:13 am

I bet I know exactly what the problem is.

I would bet that the speaker in that amp is one of those "gold label" ceramic magnet "Fender" Eminence speakers that they put in some pro juniors (the ones that didn't have the blue-frame Alnico speakers).

I had a 90s pro junior with that speaker in it and it had the worst "ice-pick" beaminess ever. "Honky" indeed.

I replaced it with a high-quality alnico speaker, a Weber. Much easier to get a sound I'm happy with now.

themagicmanmdt · Post by **themagicmanmdt** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:51 am

brad347 wrote:I bet I know exactly what the problem is.

I would bet that the speaker in that amp is one of those "gold label" ceramic magnet "Fender" Eminence speakers that they put in some pro juniors (the ones that didn't have the blue-frame Alnico speakers).

I had a 90s pro junior with that speaker in it and it had the worst "ice-pick" beaminess ever. "Honky" indeed.

I replaced it with a high-quality alnico speaker, a Weber. Much easier to get a sound I'm happy with now.

amen!

grab a weber or a jensen vintage series ceramic or alnico.

fenders are great amps, but those stock eminence speakers suck!

kayagum · Post by **kayagum** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:40 am

If you want to try other speakers with a Pro Jr, you have an extremely simple option.

There is a speaker out that you can use. The stock speaker should be connected to it- simply unplug the built in speaker, and plug in whatever you want. I had great success doing that with a Bassman 2x12 (that happened to be wired at 8ohms, which isn't standard but hey).

That way, you don't have to mess with installing a new speaker if you don't want to, or don't have time.

A-Barr · Post by **A-Barr** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:35 am

This may or may not work:

Try standing a hardcover book maybe an inch in front of the amp and then mess with mic placement. the idea being to diffuse the "beam" and hopefully some honkiness. You could also crank the treble, then throw a blanket over the amp (watch out for hot tubes though,) or point the amp at a couch and mic more of the "room" and less of the amp. Experiment, have fun.

wren · Post by **wren** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:48 pm

roscoenyc wrote:Fender Pro Jr. has a 10" speaker

Oops.

It's about the same size as a practice amp I one had that had an 8" speaker, so I just assumed...

wren · Post by **wren** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:57 pm

There was definitely some honk present when I placed my ear where I was putting the mic, but it was nowhere near as bad as what the mic was picking up...my ear told me "midrangy", and the recorded signal almost sounded like a car horn at times (the part I was recording was clean w/a lot of reverb and delay, and the honk was at its worst whenever the verb or delay swelled in really strongly).

I would've experimented more at the time, but I had a deadline and needed to get a bunch of stuff done as quickly as possible. I definitely plan on borrowing the amp again and experimenting more in future--definitely gonna try out some LDCs (never actually used one on a guitar speaker, as I've never had a problem with my 57/I5/whatever) and such. The blanket suggestion was good--I remember doing that back once upon a time when I had a 4-track and a shitty mic, hadn't thought to try it since. Book suggestion seemed interesting: I've heard that books don't really do that much diffusing, but I've never tried it, and I think I will now. Different speaker would help I'm sure, but it's not my amp, so...

Thanks all!

??????? · Post by **???????** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:54 pm

you can also try putting an "X" of gaff tape right on the grill in front of the dustcap.

JohnDavisNYC · Post by **JohnDavisNYC** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:19 pm

were the reverb and delay digital? i have heard wierd buildup in amps like that with large amounts of digital reaverb or delay before them... for some reason the analog brethren don't seem to be quite as prone to the wierd 'car horn' effect.

but, as always, not always... ymmv

john

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Eliminating honkiness when recording 8" guitar speaker

Eliminating honkiness when recording 8" guitar speaker

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