Indie band has $6 Gs from theri label

[bannerj]

Check this out here. This has ripped open the whole can of DIY versus a pro studio. I guess it is also an issue of whether this guy should also be in the middle of learning how to engineer a record at the same time he's writing and playing on it. Perhaps the GS peeps would have responded differently if he claimed to be an experienced at DIY records. Would TapeOpers encourage him to buy his own stuff even at the risk of having to recoup the cost assuming he has never completed a record before?

Anyway, with all due respect to GS (I've learned alot on there too) I thought this thread on Gearslutz revealed some fundamental differences between the two communities. Am I wrong? Michael Joly has represented and has actually made a freaking nice offer to the guy.

Here is his initial post on Gearslutz:

Hey Guys,
Love the board, i've been reading it for years. I'm a drummer in a somewhat national indie rock band. Hopefully I can help answer more drum related stuff in the future.

My question is this. Our label is offering us 6 g's to do whatever we want to record our next album. We want to buy some gear with it to track the majority of the album, maybe even drums. I have an 002 with a macbook pro and a few mics, but not quite enough to get much of a drum sound. I've got a beta 52, a few 57's and no overheads worth mentioning. I know great albums have been made for much less (like our first album) but we're looking to step up the sophistication of the sound on this one.

Any ideas? Thanks!

[JohnDavisNYC]

it is interesting...

it's funny how the GS guys are at the same time complete losers and assholes, yet kind of right... how can you expect to build a studio and deliver a recoupable album on 6gs? if you had a friend who was a great engineer, MAYBE he could spec out a good mini-studio for 6gs, but that is pushing it. it all depends on the style of music, i guess. I could make a kick ass record for 6g at the bunker. spread it out and get it done in a month... but buying gear? shit.... i would be able to get one good preamp, maybe a good mic, and a computer with an interface... oh yeah... maybe i could afford some monitors.

i sent the poster a message encouraging him to come over to TapeOp... hopefully he will join in. I think people here will be more helpful, even if it is to encourage the track in a studio/overdub at home/mix in a studio method.

john

[aitikin]

I was reading that thinking, sometimes the band knows what's best for the band. I know a lot of groups who would rather pay the 6G to have more solid equipment. At the very least they could sell it later and get their money back. That way they're only loosing about a grand, whereas if they do a real studio, it's loosing 6G if it flops.

I was kind of amazed at how everyone on GS reacted to it. He had commented that the band had really bad experiences in a studio and no one ever even thought of addressing that issue. Here, I'd like to think that would've been the first point addressed after it was mentioned.

[JohnDavisNYC]

you mean sell it to get THE LABEL's money back... and still owe a grand out of pocket.

recouping sucks. if they had their own gear already, they should just put the 6g in a CD account and make some interest off it... when the label recoups, split up the 6g plus interest.

john

[bannerj]

He hasn't confirmed that they will have to recoup...but experience tells us that this is most likely. But even if this wreaks of disaster...even if the GS guys are right...it sounds like he and the band are already convinced that they want to do it themselves. the experience might backfire for them now, but in the long run...it might need to be something they need/want to experience.

One great band I know has done their own tracking for years with minimal attention from labels and over the last few years they have been learning to hand over more of the process to the pros. It has been a very good and natural progression. if they had been put in a studio five years ago at the beginning...that would have been a disaster.

[Jeff White]

It's a tough call. I like the hybrid idea the most. Track basics at a studio and overdub at home, maybe even vox at home if you have the gear, mix at the studio (after getting mixes mostly together at home), and then mastering. The other thing that bothers me is the limited budget of $6K. What can you actually get for $6K without a) buying *minimal* great sounding gear (provided that you already have a computer to record with, or b) not having enough time with a rate of $600/day? Coupled with minimal experience as an engineer and learning as you go along, it's going to be tough.

Is it possible for a band to spend 1-3 days in the studio after working out all pre-production / arrangements because they are actively recording rehearsals and know what they sound like? These days in the studio would involve mostly live full-band tracking and working with an engineer who is simply awesome. 10 songs. 3 days. It's been done, right?

Again, not the answer that the band is hoping for. I wonder if they can add their own money into this budget. It's going to be tight.

Jeff

[JohnDavisNYC]

it can very easily be done with a good band. a good rhythm section can turn out a dozen good takes in 2 days, easy. also, 6g is a pretty good budget... i think there are a lot of engineers out there, myself included, who would be willing and able to put together a pretty sweet tracking and mixing package for 6g... just as an example, if i liked the music and the people in the band, i could offer something like.... say.... 15 days of studio time for a budget like that... 5 days of tracking, 5 days of overdubs, 5 days of mixing... because in this day and age, it is really nice to actually be able to 'get into it' on a record and have the time to work WITH a band, rather than just be rushing to get basics, and then hand them a hard drive. having a number like 6g for a record is worth a studio/engineer being a little more generous with their time, to actually make something good, i think...

well, whatever, we'll see if he comes over here.

I am all for DIY, it just doesn't seem like it would be a good way to spend a small amount of money... maybe do overdubs at home, and buy a 57, an m160, and a decent LDC... i dunno. then what happens when you go to mix and the guitar and vocal sounds suck dong? oops....

DIY is great on your own dime, but maybe not so great if you are expected to deliver a product to a label, most likely on a deadline.

john

[chris harris]

setting aside the obvious fact that the higher the budget, the fewer sacrifices you have to make in fidelity, do you guys actually read tapeop? There have been countless amazing indie records made with much smaller budgets than $6000.
The Shins
Beulah
Grandaddy
Sparklehorse
Guided By Voices
etc....

of course, most of them have moved on to bigger budget recordings.... but, no doubt they've taken the experience of recording themselves on a low budget, and used that experience to get the most out of their newfound budgets.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

don't they know they need another nine grand before they can even consider themselves worthy of making a record?

[chris harris]

I wasn't really offended by the advice to let someone else handle the engineering. That comes down to the way that you want to work. And, this band has obviously chosen to do it themselves. There is certainly plenty of precedent for what they're trying to do. It's not unheard of.

What was offensive at the Gearslutz thread was the notion that even if you go to "professionals", that $6000 is a budget to laugh at.

[JohnDavisNYC]

yeah... but, in his post he talked about 'stepping it up'... not gonna happen on 6gs...

that is all. sure, maybe it would be cooler if he bought a 388 and some weird dictaphone mics and all sorts of cool lofi stuff... i would probably love it, but it is not probably going to help them make a product for their 'national indie band' that is getting money from a label to make a record...

whatever.

john

[Jeff White]

don't they know they need another nine grand before they can even consider themselves worthy of making a record?

That's funny. I'm sure the other Jeff will chime in soon enough.

John, that's a sweet deal that you're presenting. If I was on your level and in your position I'd be happy to accommodate the same kind of package for a band that I was "into". If they are a national act, from a business standpoint, making it happen for them on that kind of budget *may/will* also benefit the studio when that band's peers come knocking. From the art side of it, it would be fun. Ashame that a lot of folks over at GS are turning their nose up on several different levels (gear budget, engineering budget, label budget, etc).

We all have to survive in this day and age, and there's nothing wrong with hard work.

Jeff

[bannerj]

setting aside the obvious fact that the higher the budget, the fewer sacrifices you have to make in fidelity, do you guys actually read tapeop? There have been countless amazing indie records made with much smaller budgets than $6000.
The Shins
Beulah
Grandaddy
Sparklehorse
Guided By Voices
etc....

of course, most of them have moved on to bigger budget recordings.... but, no doubt they've taken the experience of recording themselves on a low budget, and used that experience to get the most out of their newfound budgets.

Nice

But the trouble is that we don't know really who this band is. It'd be so much easier for me to make reccomendations if I'd seen them play and/or known something about their intelligence, musical sensibilities and work ethic. Anyway, it is an interesting scenario.

[A-Barr]

I think we all agree that you can make a great diy record for 6G, and many have done it, but it takes a lot of experience, a lot of trial and error, and a lot of familiarity with the strengths and weaknesses and interactivity of your gear and players. Even if they had 30k for gear, it would be hard to make a great diy record without at least a few years of making gradually less and less crummy records first.

My .02

[chris harris]

he's got a macbook pro and 002 plus a beta52 and a couple of 57s already.

Lynx Aurora 8 channel ad/da = $2000
Sytek 4 channel pres (x2) = $1600
Beyer m160 (x2) = $1000
Shure sm7 = $300


That would certainly "step up" the sonics of their drum tracking. It's not gonna get them the flexibility that going to a place like Studio G would get them. But, it will definitely give them the tools to get great sounding recordings on their own. And, it would still leave plenty of money for mastering.

Whether or not they could actually get anything done on their own is a separate discussion. But, it won't be the budget that keeps them from making a great recording on their own.