Federal AM-864/U

[A-Barr]

Couldn't you just swap in a nice UTC, Jensen or WE input transformer on a "speech" version and make it full-range?

[earth tones]

Since the $4000 Federal sold they are popping out of the woodwork, and shooting for the stars $!$!

1 & 2 & 3

[A-Barr]

Kinda makes you wonder if the 4K one was something somebody just sold to himself to drive up the price prior to a real auction...

[weatherbox]

Kinda makes you wonder if the 4K one was something somebody just sold to himself to drive up the price prior to a real auction...

Witness the Way Huge/Lovetone explosion of 2004... that got hairy.

Given the proper technical skills, how hard would it be to clone a lot of these old limiters that go for insane money now? I know 6386s are rare, but are there other parts that are just not available/feasibly/realistically manufactured? There's the Sta-Level which is being reproduced with the option of running off 6386 or other tubes. Seems like it'd be possible to make if not clones, similarly characterful representations of some of these things for reasonable money.

[A-Barr]

I looked into this. I wanted to build a sta-level, and I think it came to 500 or 600 bucks, assuming I could even find a 6386. But that was with modern parts, if you want "mojo parts" like UTC transformers and paper in oil caps, NOS tubes and all that, that price could easily double. However, it still beats paying 4 grand, but you'll be much harder pressed to sell it on the used market and it probably won't draw any clients unless you already have a really good rep. as a builder.
Check out prodigy pro, lots of cloners over there of classic circuits, I am of the opinion that the amount of time it takes to manufacture a classic unit, plus parts cost ends up being just as much of an investment as buying a "real" unit, but it can be a lot more fun, if you've got the disposition.

[weatherbox]

I definitely couldn't build one, I can barely change a pickup in my guitar without burning myself on the soldering iron, but several friends are pretty handy with electronics projects. Handy enough to do things like figure out how to rebias (or whatever its called) a unit to run on different tubes like they did the Sta Level? I dunno. The "mojo" parts thing is vexing. I wonder what a lot of this stuff sounded like brand new. Is the "mojo" sometimes the sound of "slightly worn out"?

[emrr]

The "mojo" parts thing is vexing. I wonder what a lot of this stuff sounded like brand new. Is the "mojo" sometimes the sound of "slightly worn out"?

Well, you can rebuild a vintage unit with metal film resistors and new caps and get 'better than possible when new' sound, or build a clone with NOS carbon resistors and modern transformers and get one flavor, or go all new and get another, etc etc etc. The vintage with new caps and resistors still has 'mojo' from the iron. Of course the other variations all have their own 'mojo' too. You can leave an original all original and hope it doesn't let the smoke out, and who knows if you'll like that mojo better than another mojo. You won't find any consensus about anything other than the hard and fast dollar value of a REAL UNIT, which is all about WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE ON THE OUTSIDE to the average buyer, who has no idea about any of the many variations they may be buying into, what with possible repairs, parts variations, tube quality, effect of environment on unit over time, condition of switches and pots, etc etc etc.

I've gotten 'better than new' when restoring many vintage pieces, given the difference in cap and resistor quality today. Not to mention parts tolerances. Have the transformers degraded over time? Very hard to say, unless you can get 10 of some vintage piece together (from different sources) in the same room and do a real scientific comparison. Are the transformers better than new parts? In what way are they better or worse? Is the desired result the opposite of what the specs say? It goes on and on.

Circling back around, I've never heard a vintage transformer that was degraded to anything detectable other than 'broken'. They all have a unique sound, and if you buy 8 pieces of UTC A-10's you'll be able to detect differences between most of them and grade them sonically. Not as likely with new parts. There's a clue there too; making truly accurate stereo matches with old parts is a crapshoot if you are very critical of small differences.

[honkyjonk]

I wish one of these people would just buy my Toft board instead.

Ahem.

Only $4000! Right over here folks! Yes, it even has a built in Federal Limiter. Two of em as a matter of fact.

How did they fit them in the board? Sheer engineering genious from Mr. Toft.

PM me!

[stapes]

One of those federals up on ebay right now is mine. The 4G price tag really got me thinking how much I like this thing. I think it actually made me like it more which is weird. If it doesn't sell, I won't be that bummed.
I did a frequency sweep on mine and it definitely seems like a full range one. -1 db at 80, -2 at 50, -3 at 30, -5 at 20. I use it on bass guitar all the time, and that's a gentle enough roll off that it works for me. It's -1 at 20kHz, too.

Erik Wofford
Stapes Audio

[joel hamilton]

People just need to know about the variation in these units. Of course you could build your own. You can also build yourself a house, a car, and a birthday cake all from scratch. If you cost $0.00 an hour, then you will save tremendously. In fact, if you can afford to not work for money, and just build the things you want to buy from raw elements found readily in nature... like the audio version of robinson carusoe [sp?] or macgyver.

sought after = expensive. That is a fact. I wouldnt pay 9 zillion dollars for a hank aaron rookie baseball card in mint condition, but I own an ADL670 which cost a lot of money. I bought a neve in the 6 figures, and I take the subway or ride my vespa to the studio....

Priorities.

[emrr]

Priorities.

says it.

[weatherbox]

People just need to know about the variation in these units. Of course you could build your own. You can also build yourself a house, a car, and a birthday cake all from scratch. If you cost $0.00 an hour, then you will save tremendously. In fact, if you can afford to not work for money, and just build the things you want to buy from raw elements found readily in nature... like the audio version of robinson carusoe [sp?] or macgyver.

sought after = expensive. That is a fact. I wouldnt pay 9 zillion dollars for a hank aaron rookie baseball card in mint condition, but I own an ADL670 which cost a lot of money. I bought a neve in the 6 figures, and I take the subway or ride my vespa to the studio....

Priorities.

Seems like kind of a flippant response to a fair question. Recording is obviously a priority for everyone here. I used to spend all my cash on gear, and was worth it to me to drop a bunch of cash on one of your seminars for what I'd learn. I doubt a lot of people here can prioritize $3k for a niche compressor but would be into DIYing something that cost 1/3 as much and left a similar sonic footprint over a couple weekends of work. It's not a matter of being able to "afford to work for no money" - I certainly can't, in fact, I had to sell most everything I owned and move in with a relative after getting seriously ill and having no insurance and all that left me broke last winter; I am still slowly rebuilding just to have enough preamps to mic a drumkit! I understand what you mean about priorities. My priority, being healthy again, is to get my shit up and running again with cool gear, and if me and my more electrical-engineering-savvy friends can DIY projects inspired by gear that's cool, but utterly impractical and irresponsible for our financial situations, that serves that priority.

[Electro-Voice 664]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-G-101-Combo- ... dZViewItem

You thought $4000 was silly!?

[trodden]

hell, i just want a pair of DBX 160 (x)(xt)(a)'s and can't afford that. 4 grand for an old mono tube compressor..'toopid.

[JdJ]

If you have the time for researching and building a piece of gear, you learn how it works from the inside out- literally. Chances are you won't have to call a tech if it breaks, blah blah blah. The downside, of course is that it takes you away from the main point: recording...

So does it make sense for some people? Definitely!

Federal

-J