Any fundamental difference between the akg 414 versions?

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thekeepsake
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Any fundamental difference between the akg 414 versions?

Post by thekeepsake » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:45 pm

Hi,

I'm in the market for new overheads for digital recording. I'm looking at 414s. I know the tlII/xl2 ones are too bright for overheads, especially in my room, so i'm looking at the xls/uls ones.

Other than the additional pattern options, are there any fundamental differences?

Thanks!

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Post by locosoundman » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:43 am

The TL series are transformerless on the output and, as you mentioned, have a pronounced high-end boost. I think they have different output specifications as far as noise and sensitivity as well.

The ULS are flatter in frequency response and have an output transformer.

The TL would be more appropriate for vocals as well as diffuse field situations i.e. stereo mic'ing an ensemble of some sort.

I own a pair of ULS's and find them quite useful. They are not great on any particular source, but they work on almost anything and they can withstand pretty high SPL's without breaking up. I have used TL-II's on a few occasions, but have never A-B'ed the two. The TL's are definitely brighter, perhaps slightly more detailed.

This may not be the worst thing on overheads. Depends on the room really...
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Post by @?,*???&? » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:36 am

Look into a set of the EB series 414s. Nice and dark for overheads.

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Post by thekeepsake » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:10 am

Thanks for the replies so far!

I should mention what has worked and hasn't worked in our room:

mono at4050 - worked wellish
stereo at4033s - too trashy sounding
stapes sto2 - rad, but sometimes we record younger drummers and the omnis making it harder to make up for their performance problems during mixing
mono neumann tlm103 - too bright
stereo akg 451bs - way way way too bright around 8-12kHz

i guess that's why i was thinking of an ldc, and i want something multipurpose... so i the 414s came to mind. we have a lot of work to do on our room. when i recorded in a basement, the 4033s were really cool. now we have a room with a 25 foot ceiling that has a lot of potential but some nasty corners that need some treatment. until we figure out how to do that in a non-destructive way (we rent the space), i figured changing mics would be the best temporary solution.

and of course i've been able to de-ess the problem out of current projects, but i'd rather not have it there to start with, ya know?

any more input is appreciated, including other model suggestions.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:21 am

Also, the Coles 4038 rocks as an overhead mic. Ribbon thickness offset by shrill brass. Good compliment.

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Post by fossiltooth » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:16 pm

@?,*???&? wrote:Also, the Coles 4038 rocks as an overhead mic. Ribbon thickness offset by shrill brass. Good compliment.
True... even if it has nothing to do with the rest of the thread. I like coles 4038's on OH's in a good room, but they wouldn't be my first choice for every style.

In my experience, the Transformerless version of the 414 is fairly hard and bright sounding when compared to the BULS.

The BULS is quite a bit 'woodier'... More on the "mushy" side than the "hard" side when compared to the TL, especially in its cardioid position.

The TL can be great on acoustic guitar, provided it's not an overly bright, strident guitar like a Taylor. The TL can help certain vocals "cut" quite well in a dense mix... but in a totally different way than, say a U87.

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Post by locosoundman » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:03 pm

mono neumann tlm103 - too bright
If the 103 was too bright, the TL-II will be worse.

Overall, I think the ULS is far more useful than its more expensive cousin.
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Post by fossiltooth » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:17 pm

locosoundman wrote:
mono neumann tlm103 - too bright
If the 103 was too bright, the TL-II will be worse.

Overall, I think the ULS is far more useful than its more expensive cousin.
Sure, the 414 TL-II could be even brighter than the tlm103 on quite a few sources, but it lacks the truly sucky, scratchy midrange of the 103.

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Post by auralman » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:00 pm

well, I think the TLII is the best of the 414 lot, m'self, so...

I think what's safe to say is that all 414s respond to mic pres rather drastically. A 414 B-ULS into a Pultec MP1 is beautiful....but into an Avalon is too hyped. A 414TLII into a Neve 1081 is butter...but it's unlistenable in an API.

All varieties are very 'fast' mics - fantastic on transients, and the high pass filter is very tasteful in my opinion. I think it's (again, the TLII) a great all-purpose mic. I don't find myself running out there and swapping it out nearly as much as I do other mics. Similar to an AT 4033 or AT4050 in that regard.
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Post by T-rex » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:39 pm

Well if you are open to other mic suggestions maybe you should try a pair of 4047's? They are transformer driven, rolled off top thick bottom but not at all muddy. I tend to think of them as very rich sounding. They do great as OH's especially if you want an overhead sound that can really capture the whole kit. Plus they work great on tons of other things; guitar cab,bass drum, vox, acoustic etc.

Only one pattern though - cardioid.
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Post by dynomike » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:40 pm

T-rex wrote:Well if you are open to other mic suggestions maybe you should try a pair of 4047's? They are transformer driven, rolled off top thick bottom but not at all muddy. I tend to think of them as very rich sounding. They do great as OH's especially if you want an overhead sound that can really capture the whole kit. Plus they work great on tons of other things; guitar cab,bass drum, vox, acoustic etc.

Only one pattern though - cardioid.
I use the 4047 on drum overs sometimes, for a mono over. They do have a cool bottom end but I find the top end too smeary for cymbals most of the time...
The transformerless 4040's are usually better.. I have a pair of those.. although I often run them into a tube pre, and de-ess too.. so maybe they are a bit too 'fast' sounding really.

I wouldn't get the 414's if you're really just looking for overheads.. I would look into the Coles ribbons and Beyer ribbons (m160s or m130s), as I've been really pleased with both, though dont own either :( Multipattern LDCs will be really useful in the studio for other things though... piano... strings, horns.. vocals..

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Post by Recycled_Brains » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:18 am

some of the 414EB's used the AKG C12 capsule. those seem to be the most desireable. that's what i'd aim for.

if you're looking to go multipattern, the shure KSM44's might be worth a look too. they're very un-hyped at any frequency. pretty much flat actually. i've used them as overheads and for a bunch of other shit with solid results. not sure why i don't own a pair.

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