Those hard hitting drummers...

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shakestheclown
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Those hard hitting drummers...

Post by shakestheclown » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:49 pm

Any suggestions on techniques for recording a drummer that hits the snare so hard it makes your ears bleed?

I'd tell him not to whack it so hard but it really sounds good.

Seems like it's gonna be hard to get a good balance out of the kit with so much snare in the overheads.

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Post by jaguarsg » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:54 pm

duck it?

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:57 pm

if it sounds good when he plays, then there is no problem!

if he hits the snare hard, he probably hits the toms hard too. hopefully he doesn't hit the hats/cymbals nearly as hard. if he does, then that's a conversation you might wanna have.

i think it was fossiltooth who was saying the other day: "you WANT a lot of snare in the overheads." and i would agree. if there turns out to be too much, put a fast compressor on there and that'll knock the snare back without affecting much else. and too much snare in the overheads is a much better problem to have than not enough, imo.

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Post by weatherbox » Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:31 pm

serious, that's a problem I wish I had more often... snare overpowering the rest in the overheads? Oh if only! Then I could can the close mic, or use it for effect, and just match the kick mic in volume... Maybe a gentle, really fast comp on the overhead to knock some of the initial smack down just a hair only when the snare hits? I like that sound anyways. Does the dude use toms a lot? If so I'd mic them (even summed to one channel if # of channels/tracks dictate...) so the close mics can be snuck up a little if he doesn't match his tom intensity with his snare power. I'm so used to having too much hi hat, too much 16" crash, "please, lay off the ride FOR ONE BAR" in the overheads that this sounds like paradise.

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shakestheclown
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Post by shakestheclown » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:47 pm

I figured that that would be the response.

It doesn't seem like the rest of the kit is played very hard but his snare is... deafening.

I don't think I could bear to be in the same room/stage with him without good earplugs.

mebbe he doesn't hit it so hard, it's just his attack. It's definitely much louder than the rest of the kit though.

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Post by weatherbox » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:58 pm

Does he do that thing where along with every snare hit he's boosting the attack by sidesticking a rimshot along with the hit to the drumhead? Multiple snares? I have one snare that's just notably louder than my others.

I'd put a fast attack/decay comp/limiter on the OH that ONLY kicks on his snare hits to just tame them a bit (plus I like that sound and *never* get to use it because every other drummer on earth is louder on his hats/ride than his snare and it'd turn to pumping cymbal wooosh...) and then tight-pattern close mics on the other parts that need to be brought up. As you say it sounds good, just unruly... You won't rely on the OH as much as usual so your close micing will be more critical, but I bet in the end you can get a great big tone from this guy.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:04 pm

shakestheclown wrote:I don't think I could bear to be in the same room/stage with him without good earplugs.
i feel that way about any drummer (including me) who's hitting the snare with authority. that shit hurts.

i bet you are going to be just fine. i recorded a guy like that awhile back and it was noooooo problem at all getting a good sound.

one thing i remember from the bob weston interview in TO a million years ago was he said he sometimes will put the overheads kinda back behind and over the drummer "using the drummer's head to block the snare"....so if it really IS a problem you could maybe try that.

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Post by JGriffin » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:08 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:one thing i remember from the bob weston interview in TO a million years ago was he said he sometimes will put the overheads kinda back behind and over the drummer and "taping the drummer's head to the drum to muffle the snare"....so if it really IS a problem you could maybe try that.
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Post by @?,*???&? » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:45 pm

Do nothing. Let him hit as hard as he wants if it sounds good.

I've had players in the past that hit erratically. Invariably, I'll play back a light hit, a medium hit and a hard hit and ask them- unprompted- which sounds best and they will always tell me the hardest one sounds like the drum sound they want.

Hands down. If it translates to the most solid performance, I got no complaints.

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Re: Those hard hitting drummers...

Post by fossiltooth » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:07 pm

shakestheclown wrote: Seems like it's gonna be hard to get a good balance out of the kit with so much snare in the overheads.
Again with this!
shakestheclown wrote: It's definitely much louder than the rest of the kit though.
Problem?

This seems to be the universal T.O.M.B. drum recording "issue". I'm still baffled.

What's the problem? Is it Jazz? Then switch drummers.

It's not? Good. If the snare sounds loud and crappy in the OH's, then change snares. If you're still not hearing exactly what you want, adjust OH mics.

If you're going to actually compress your drums and the mix, I find that a loud snare in the OH's is usually a blessing. Especially in a dense mix.
shakestheclown wrote:Any suggestions on techniques for recording a drummer that hits the snare so hard it makes your ears bleed?
Yeah, Give him a raise.
shakestheclown wrote: I'd tell him not to whack it so hard but it really sounds good.
I think you answered you own question!
Last edited by fossiltooth on Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by JamesHE » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:31 pm

turn up the vocal.
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Post by drumsound » Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:38 pm

I gotta agree with Justin and MSE. The snare is the heart of the groove and the drum sound. Snares should be played with authority!

If the player is balancing the drum-set and making musical sense then you're golden. If you think you need more cymbals and less snare ask the drummer to adjust the balance,

You could also alter you overhead technique. Start with something simple like taking the setup you have and slightly splaying the mics to toward the outside of the drum-set. If that isn't doing it for you, maybe try ORTF, or in 'in front' technique. Maybe an M/S pair would help you.

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shakestheclown
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Post by shakestheclown » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:45 am

Thanks for the responses...

I like the idea of setting up behind him and hiding the snare with his head.

I also like the idea of putting up mics so that the drums sound good and complaining less.

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Post by ??????? » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:36 am

one other thought... are you sure it's that the snare is too loud and not that the kick is too soft?

Just a thought.

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Post by KilledByAlbany » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:54 pm

When putting 11 close mics on every possible free spot on the kit is standard practice in the recording world, it's often easy to forget that a drum kit is still a single instrument. Worrying about seperation in that mindset is a lot like trying to mic only the D string on a guitar and being frustrated than the A string is still audible. A little (or a lot...) of snare in your overheads certainly won't kill anybody... Personally I find it to be almost necessary in capturing a great snare sound, because you often don't get that great "krrrrak!!" of a good snare until you are a decent distance away. Many times I go even further than that and put up a room mic where I find the snare sounds the most alive, throw a gate on it, and key it to the close snare mic. You are now in gunshot country...

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