Guitar modeling vs. Guitar Micing

[spencerwalters]

what are your thoughts on which one is better?

pros and cons please!!!!

also what can i do to make palm mutes on guitar modeling programs such as guitar rig and amplitube sound more distorted but not too muddy? thats a big problem i've been having with the mods.

[pootkao]

TONE






TONE





TONE





Did I mention tone?
The modellers are good for getting ideas down quick, but if you're doing anything even remotely serious, get a good amp and put a mic in front of it. Nothing beats the sound of a speaker pushing actual air against a microphone capsule.

[JamesHE]

Is this really a question?

If you have a mic, a decent amp, and can turn it up without having the cops come for a vist, the answer is obvious right?

If you don't, then the next best thing is some sort of software/pod thing.

[RefD]

amp modellers have their place (mine is a POD Pro sitting in a rack that seldom gets fired up), but i agree with the segment saying "mic an amp".

cos that's almost always gonna get you a better sound.

[themagicmanmdt]

but!!!

but!!!

deerhoof's album 'the runners four' sounded so *good*!!!!

[rwc]

Sometimes the modeler works. Pop rock stuff.

Sometimes I also use the modeler in addition to the amp.. if I decide to double the amp, I put one left, one right, and the modeler in the center. Or do something funny with it.

Never hurts to have a choice.

[theBaldfather]

Modeling is an epidemic around here. Especially in the metal scene. the same as replacing/programming drums, and bass drops. I've heard some pretty good sounding modelers, but my 100 watt framus going through some vintage 30's balls-out is still my pick. I'm consistently amazed at how fake metal recordings sound, and not even the bands seem to notice. haha, you hit a nerve I guess ..

[Vogon]

also what can i do to make palm mutes on guitar modeling programs such as guitar rig and amplitube sound more distorted but not too muddy? thats a big problem i've been having with the mods.

I think most speaker cabs are modelled using convolution. The trouble with convolution is, it takes a "snapshot" of the speaker in one state only, any speaker distortion is rendered as part of the frequency response. The reality is that the speaker is interacting with the amp (and cab) at all levels of volume.
The result is really just like applying a very complex eq curve to the amp output. I find it very prone to booming/ringing. There's a fair way to go before modelling can really nail a real cab.
They are so darned convenient and are useful for some things IMO, people have been EQ'ing post-amp DI's for years to get more synthetic sounds (I'm sure townsend was doing it way back). Some to good effect and some not. At the moment, it's close enough to sell, so until people start "getting" the shortcomings, the manufacturers will ride the wave.
It's funny, people collectively often get gear-madness. We were smothering recordings with Aphex exciters, Rockmans and sticking Kahlers on nice guitars at one point... At the time, everyone thought it was great "everyone's doing it, so it must be OK". Then a few years later everyones ear has become attuned, you hear the recordings and think "what were we on?"...

[Sean Sullivan]

I think they are too noisy to be taken seriously...at least that was my experience running some electric guitar through the Chandler Germanium DI and running it through Chrome Amp. It is very convenient for scratch tracks though.

[I'm Painting Again]

what are your thoughts on which one is better?

pros and cons please!!!!

also what can i do to make palm mutes on guitar modeling programs such as guitar rig and amplitube sound more distorted but not too muddy? thats a big problem i've been having with the mods.

Guitar modeling vs. Guitar Micing

why does it have to be a battle?

use both..you know they have advantages and disadvantages already..it's not logical to shut one out of your life!

if your palm muted are not distorted enough distort them more..if they are too muddy make them less muddy..

the problem isn't in the tool it's with the operator of the tool..people use guitar modeletators every day and they make it sound good so there is no reason you can't if you keep working hard and trying your best..

[drumsound]

I think if I had an amp modeler I'd use if for everything but guitar. But I'm a pain in the ass that way.

[vvv]

Modelers are the most fun at 3:00AM when the kids are asleep.

[???????]

I think modelers are perfect for jingles, soundtracks and the like where convenience, expediency and profit takes precedence over the actual sound.

If I was making a record of any kind, I would want to use an actual real instrument. I can be pretty hard-line about that, actually.

[ashcat_lt]

Amp modelers are great. They're more consistent, more dependable, require less intensive maintanence. They're lighter and more compact. And that's compared to just 1 amp. Now, compare to 32 individual amps and they're associated speaker cabinets.


They aleviate many of the concerns re: the acoustic qualities of the room you're in. They can be played (as someone else said) at 3 am with the baby sleeping upstairs and without bringing the police. But also, you don't have to worry about the ambient noise levels of the room they're recorded in, because they're not going to pick up the sounds of the computer fan or HVAC or whatever. And "isolation" becomes a non-issue. Record a whole orchestra full of guitars and basses in the same room with no bleed whatsoever.

They sound good right out of the box. There's plenty of subtlety and character in there if you take just a minute to find it. Just like a good amp, you might not get what you're looking for by plugging and cranking all the knobs to 11. But good tones are there to be had. Sure, a straight A-B between a live amp and modeled version of the same amp is going to show some differences, but who does that? And really, by the time it's made its way into anything like a typical rock/pop mix it's going to have been compressed, eq'd, and then masked by the other instruments to the point where much of that subtlety is lost.

Somebody will come along and mention that there is an infinite variety of tones to be had from mic choice and positioning. I'm not going to deny that, but see my earlier note re: subtleties. Plus, you know, a mic used to provide character is being used as a filter. It can fairly easily be replaced by a filter to get a similar character. And there's always Anteres Mic Modeler.

It's my belief that the only people who really care about the difference are tone nazi guitarists and anal engineers. The vast majority of your audience won't be able to tell the difference. And frankly, I'd much rather hear a good album recorded through an amp modeler than to not hear that album because the band couldn't find a good sounding room where they could mic that raging amp without getting evicted.

[0-it-hz]

I play alot of local live theatre gigs. I can tell you that modeling is a GODSEND for those.

The fact that I can be running through a pair of 6" KRKs pointed at my face on low volume and send an idiot proof direct signal makes life very easy.

This system also avoids the "micing the logo" issues that you're bound to have with inexperienced sound techs.

Let's not forget that a nice front-end is essential. I use a VHT valvulator tube splitter/impedance converter/warmy-uppy-box into the mic/inst. in on a fire-box. That VHT made the single biggest difference in my tone going through the computer. EVEN more difference than changing from guitar rig 1 to Amplitube 2. You can't expect guitar plugged into shitty DI or crappy pre-amp to become GOLD ITB.

Also: try this one modeler pre-amp --> line out --> REAL power amp --> REAL speaker --> REAL mic.

For those of us who are fancy amp deprived this one works pretty well. I fell that speaker modeling is the weakest link as far as amplitube/guitar rig are concerned.