How the hell do people in my situation set rates?

[bplr]

So here's my situation:

I've been recording for about 5 or 6 years on a modest prosumer setup (digi002, powerbook, LA610, Eureka, RNP/RNC, MK012's, C1, M260, 57/58, D112, etc...). Basically, I've done my research on gear that gives good bang for buck. I work out of a small 3 bedroom apt where the living room is my control room, and each room can work as iso booths. It is just barely capable of recording a 3-4 piece band. My neighbors don't mind me recording during the day, but I can't really track later than about 8 pm, so I can't really squeeze in a full 10 hour day. I live directly under the flight path for the airport, although it's about 15-20 miles away. From time to time, a plane ruins a good take. I usually just try to keep the mic's as close to the instruments as possible, and things typically come out pretty clean. Across the street is an elementary school. Between 2 and about 3:30, buses create unavoidable bass. If it's noticeable, I can usually spot clean little sections with some EQ in the mix. As a result of these limitations, I've become a cheap staple for a couple guys who feel that a little background noise is good vibe on a recording, and they actually prefer me to dirty things up a bit. (even to the point of adding funk logic masterizer "fake hiss")

I've gotten pretty good at working around my limitations. What I lack in proper facility, I provide in comfortability, easy vibe, quickness and, in the end, a relatively solid recording. After working with a couple of well regarded local musicians, I'm starting to get requests for recording work by bands. Explaining the situation can be a touch humbling, and difficult to get their trust.

As a result, I'm having a hard time setting a price scenario that will convince people to work here. I usually work sliding scale, sort of a pay what you can, and sometimes I'll trade for gear. I don't want to charge too much and come off as a rip off when people could go to a more legit situation for $200 a day. What would you guys do?

Tracking - $100-150/day? (12-8pm), requiring that the band be ready to tear through it, ideally 3-4 takes max each song.

Mixing - $30/song? $100/day? $15/hour?

I don't want to overprice, but I don't want to work for free either. Sometimes I'll mix for free and ask for $200 a day to track, just because I really enjoy mixing. Sometimes I'll ask for a lump sum for the project. How do those of you in my situation set it up so you don't get taken advantage of, but manage to keep people coming in?

Sorry this is so long winded ...

[rwc]

Find other places to work out of that are more professional.

Look out rehearsal studios.

Rehearsal studios are like the emerging markets mutual funds of modern recording studios. The cheaper it gets, the more these guys think "why not add recording as a supplement to our existing business model, that doesn't live or die solely based on recording?"

Offer to let them use your equipment in the room, and keep it there, as long as it's racked neatly. Offer to set it up.

Then tell them you'll do this in exchange for being able to use the room for free. The idea of saving a few thousand dollars just so some schmuck can use time on occasion is an offer I've yet to see anyone deny.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Find other places to work out of that are more professional.

guys, guys...jeff robinson hacked into RWCs account! MODS!

bplr, it seems to me that if people are asking you to record them, they've heard stuff you've done at your place and liked it...so they oughta be willing to put up with the unavoidable shortcomings of your space. i mean people have gotta understand that if they're recording in someone's apartment, it's not gonna be the same as recording in a real studio...

as far as how to charge, you mentioned trying a number of approaches, what did you feel worked the best? i'm generally doing a flat fee per song these days, mainly because i feel like it's the easiest way to go for everyone. the band knows how much they're gonna have to spend, and they don't have to watch the clock, i know that i'm gonna make X dollars, and it'll work out to something at least sort of reasonable per hour. i've also done X dollars per hour for tracking, and then a flat fee per song for mixing. depends on the project.

[cyantologist]

Given your situation, I'd say the most fair way for you and the bands you work with is to hammer out some flat-rate prices. If they're paying hourly, they won't be pleased if an airplane ruins a couple of their good takes. With a flat rate, I think things would be a lot more relaxed because there won't be constant tension and nit-picking about a few minutes here and there. Or maybe consider a cross between the two, ie 4 hours/song plus an hourly rate kicks in if you go over. Or something like that.

[8th_note]

I also charge a flat rate per song and it works well for me. Fortunately I don't have airplanes or buses to worry about but other than that my situation is similar to yours. The band knows what it will cost going in and it gives me some creative control regarding how much time to put into the project. I've never had anybody try to take advantage of this arrangement, either. All of my clients have been very respectful.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Go mobile and push the freelance angle.
I have a good but small room. It's perfect for some bands, not so good for others. I invested in a portable rig - a modded Soundcraft Series 1, powered monitors and a laptop running PT LE with a DIGI002 & Behringer ADA8000.
Now I record bands all over - at their houses, cottages, rehearsal rooms, hockey rinks, barns - and come back to my place to overdub and mix. I also work out of other studios for basic tracking then come back home to overdub & mix.
I get to make a living wage and still end up being affordable for most bands. Stressing the freelence angle also help seperate me from my room in the eyes of the client, ie - I might be right for the job even if my room isn't right for the job.

[rwc]

Find other places to work out of that are more professional.

guys, guys...jeff robinson hacked into RWCs account! MODS!

If it went well it wouldn't cost him a cent extra. Just work out of a place where you have some guarantee people won't beat the crap out of your gear.

[@?,*???&?]

Find other places to work out of that are more professional.

guys, guys...jeff robinson hacked into RWCs account! MODS!

Hmmm, not really. Wouldn't know where to begin to do so.

RWC makes a great point. The only reason this guy has to use his crappy gear is because that is the only way to make money. Find an indie band that can afford a $600 a day room and you have found the exception.

I track in bigger rooms only when the band can afford to do so. I can work out of my own space and get a good result, but there is no flavor of API tracking or Flickinger tracking in the sound. If I work out of my own space, I make all the profit. If I work out of another studio, I give that up.

Does anyone shop for the sound of an engineers work anymore? Everyone is hung up on 'studios' but it is not the studio that delivers the end result- that is the producer/engineer.

With professional producer management, the manager shops the discography and work reel of the producers and engineers they manage. It's entirely based around the sound of the art. An unsigned band typically books a studio based around rate- and there is no corrolation to sound. It's amazing this accepted these days. This is hurting our industry as well.

[@?,*???&?]

Go mobile and push the freelance angle.

There is no bigger abuse of your equipment than doing this. Plan on 1.5 hours of schlepping equipment book-ending each session too. Who pays for that? Is it on the clock?

I did this briefly and I say avoid this scenario like the plague.

[bplr]

The only reason this guy has to use his crappy gear is because that is the only way to make money.

it's not my gear that's crap, sport, it's my rooms. and i don't have to use it to make money. recording probably accounts for about 1-2% of my income. i was just pointing out that, on paper, i don't look like electric ladyland. i can't sell myself to your average strat wielding faux-hawk with a bunch of brand dropping. i don't rely on recording for income, and as such, it allows me to avoid having to record teenage punk bands with mom's money, thinking they NEED neve, neumann and pultec to make a good record. besides, i know my gear, and i'm going to provide the strongest service to my clients by using things that i'm quick with. using someone else's studio might be a fun occasional thing, but there's something personal in my setup that i enjoy, which is, in part, why i keep my rates low.

thanks for all the replies. there's no way in hell i'm going back to dragging my gear around to people's houses to make albums again, unless i want to record someone more than life itself or i get paid a jaw dropping amount to do so. it's a major pain in the ass and rarely worth it. i live on the 3rd floor, have a small car and i'm skinny. lots of stairs, no transport space, few muscles.

i'm going to stick with the flat rate and try to work out some sort of noise cancellation by sticking a mic outside the closed window and recording a track for every pass, flipping polarity.javascript:emoticon(':P')

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Hmmm, not really. Wouldn't know where to begin to do so.

twas merely a joke...