wow so here's what i learned tonight!

[versuviusx]

so i was was at this bar and then there was this guy who was the engineer for this local semi famous band. they were a bunch of old guys in their 40's who knew how to rock. here's what i learned: You learn so much from a grand master in 3 secs of being around him then you could trying to learn by your self or even on a message board trying for 30 years.
have you ever been around someone who is so experienced in something that they just bleed information, and the information is so informative that you are amazed?
that's what happened to me.
i ended up talking to this guy who has been recording since he was 14, and he's like in his mid 40's. it was amazing. i love sucking up hard to get information. for example we talked about problematic freuqencies
to watch out for
here they are:
125
315*
630
1.25khz
2.5khz*
5khz
* means really bad.
i've never gotten a single simple list of anything like that anywhere not even here.
i haven't even researched them yet but i'm sure these are problematic frequencies. he said he keeps everything at unit gain and never adds...he always subtracts if he is eq'ing. i mean i've never even thought about problematic frequencies.
i told him that a lot of people don't like sharing their secrets and he said that it's a stupid mentality to go by because it wouldn't matter if i had this information because i don't have his ears. but still you have to start with some guidelines or rules of thumbs to go by. i said that everyone is becoming a jack of all trades and not a master and that finding a master is really hard to find these days who doesn't charge an arm and a leg. he said that's the way they want it to be. is this a conspiracy theory? i don't know but it does say something. i mean i've been on this board for a long time...but i can't say that i've really gotten really good recipies to try out. really that's what i'm looking for. i'm looking for recipies. for example i made a post recently about your plugin FX chain. i got 2 replies, and the 2nd one was a copy cat. i'm just saying where are all the grand masters at. where are all the great recipies? well i think the grand masters are too busy touring and recording to be helping people like me. the recipies exist but no one really wants to take the time to list them and in their mind for good reason. the last page on the last issue of tapeop larry was talking about this same thing. so here's how i feel. i'm not asking you do my work for me. but a recipie here and there would be mighty cool of you. i'm not looking for an argument claiming that it's all art and no science or that it's all an opinion and there are no rules. i really will never accept that there are no rules. there are rules, you can choose to ignore them or acknowledge them. that is exactly why all the shows i see locally..... suck. for the most part because the sound guy has no clue about good rules or at least good rule of thumbs to go by. he's using all the wrong delays, and reverbs wrong and it really makes the band sound amatuer-ish. and even if you are going to break the rules don't you have to know the rules before you break them?
so someone would then say if you want rules why don't you buy a book or go apprentice under someone.
well first reading a book about recording to me is like reading a book about how to play the guitar or have sex or driving a car. i play the guitar and i would consider my self above average and i can't say that i have ever read a book. i took 3 lessons my whole life and then i just started playing by ear, learning all the scales, and then just doing it. i have learned a lot by being around people and watching them play. finding someone here where i live to record under just isn't a pheasible situation. and i really need to make money to eat.
why hasn't someone put out a cheat sheet for everyone to experiment with. it could be called the tapeop recipie cheat sheet. i guess a book could be informative but in my experience never have i read something that just made me think whoa thats good shit. most of the time it's theory, the vintage mic pres they used,pictures, and what was going on in their life the time they were famous. never have i ever read something like we had the reverb decay was 1.86s, the defussion was 72% the room size was this...the specifics that actually make that sound. you could have the same mics, the same mic pres, but if you didn't have very hard to find specific information like the room size or where delay times, it would be really hard for you to get the same sound. for example the article on remastering the depeche mode stuff in surround sound and recreating that stuff. talk about painstaking amazingly hard..... why? because so much information was gone! as in non-existent. not documented at all or archived. they had to recreate to best of their ability and even then did they get it right? maybe. maybe not. i just wish there were more specifics. i'm certainly not looking for anyone to record for me. i'm just looking for out of the ordinary super compacted with information stuff that i can really use. it's so rare to find that. that's why i get excited when i find someone who has all this super compacted with information stuff with such a surplus it's just oozes out of their brain. this guy wasn't even looking for me. i was looking for him. i know a guy who would mix live all the big bands that came into raleigh, so he would do live mixing for bands like areosmith,eagles,pearl jam, and just hearing what he has to say is amazing. it's pretty awesome.
he's no one famous. but he's been doing it for a long time. there are lots of guys in the shadows who are seen as no ones and it's amazing what these rare people know. and you will never meet them or talk to them because alot of them aren't on a message board. they're too busy doing what we like to talk about. they know what they know because they love what they do but also because they depend on their career to eat.

[Artifex]

I mean this in the best way possible, but please learn how to write well and format. I got about halfway through before I gave up. I have no idea how old you are, but your coming off like a 13 year old or something with the way you've written.

[RoyMatthews]

There are no 'problem frequencies' nature doesn't care about 125hz anymore than it does 126hz.

[johnny7]

Your "master" may well have been talking about the room modes of the club.
I see a number of multiples in your freq. list. But this information will not be helpful anywhere else.

You should always listen to what a friendly person with more experience than you has to say. Then you can test these tidbits out on your own to discover whether they are true, helpful, or meaningless to you.

There is no correlation between recipes and art.

Johnny

[apropos of nothing]

I hate to say it, but when you're talking about "recipes", you're talking about theory. The most quickly accessible avenue towards theory is by reading a book. If you can find a teacher, and that's how you learn best, so much the better. But if you can't wait for a teacher, read a book. They're full of recipes. But you have to have patience for them.

[thethingwiththestuff]

There are no 'problem frequencies' nature doesn't care about 125hz anymore than it does 126hz.

are you sure? some guy at a bar gave me a checklist and made everything totally black and white and simple.....you're just guarding the recipe, aren't you?

[RoyMatthews]

A pinch of cinnamon.

But that's it isn't it. There are thousands of cookbooks with recipes. And some people still can't cook. My grandmother could make the best biscuits 'cause she has the experience and know how. Not the recipe. She doesn't even need to measure anymore.

Now, I'm hungry...

[johnny7]

There are no 'problem frequencies' nature doesn't care about 125hz anymore than it does 126hz.

are you sure? some guy at a bar gave me a checklist and made everything totally black and white and simple.....you're just guarding the recipe, aren't you?

I always thought 126hz sounded a little sharp...

[rwc]

There are chief engineers of legendary studios that might agree with the point of his post, which I interpreted to be, that there is no mentoring system anymore.

[RoyMatthews]

There are chief engineers of legendary studios that might agree with the point of his post, which I interpreted to be, that there is no mentoring system anymore.

This I agree with and it's sad. Watching someone else work is is one of the best ways to learn. But you can't watch them to find a secret move. It's how they deal with each situation on it's own.
Each instrument, each mix, every overdub is 'fluid'.

[Scodiddly]

125 Hz tends to be a problem in a lot of clubs because the wavelength of sound at 125 Hz is pretty close to a floor-to-ceiling distance of 8-10 feet. Of course there's a bit of variation because of different ceiling heights, but 125Hz is the closest frequency band on a 1/3 octave graphic EQ. 2.5KHz is pretty famous as a trouble spot in monitor mixing, mainly because it's about the most annoying frequency to have feeding back.

Cutting rather than boosting is definitely the way to do graphic EQ stuff in a live situation, though. But don't go too far - if you've got about 10 frequency bands pulled down then it's time to start over.

[syrupcore]

Sounds like a good experience everyone is poopooing on. Sure, paragraph breaks would help. dude got to spend some time with some one who was willing to talk to him about something he cares about, he got excited, came 'home' to share the tale and everyone sassed him. lame.

There may be no recipes for great recordings but there are plenty of recipes for reasonable recordings. listen to the radio.

I have 'recipes' I tend to start with. don't you? Everyone dissing recipes above makes it up from scratch each and every time they go to record an instrument? Rethinking positions in the room and each mic in your locker and mic position on the instrument and preamp and and and for each take in each recording? please. no recipes. meh.

[0-it-hz]

Oh dear god.

Interestingly enough those numbers are actually usefull for something. They're almost the exact frequencies I've sliced out when using sm58s with shitty JBL and Yamaha wedges as monitors......

Go figure.

There are some recipes in live sound.... like: if you have a Beta 58 and sidefills beware of about 750hz and 300hz IMHO the B58 resonates or isn't very tight in those areas... maybe a headbasket problem.

But anecdotes like that are VERY specific.

Also, most "bands" don't need a sound guys help to sound amateurish...

[RoyMatthews]

Yeah, fair enough. I'm looking at this from a studio standpoint. Maybe it's a bit different doing live sound.

[syrupcore]

But that's it isn't it. There are thousands of cookbooks with recipes. And some people still can't cook. My grandmother could make the best biscuits 'cause she has the experience and know how. Not the recipe. She doesn't even need to measure anymore.

would using a recipe make your grandmother a bad cook? did your grandmother invent her entire process of biscuit making from scratch? She prolly watched her mother make them. started from there and then made them her own over the years. recipes don't need to be written down.