Resistors?

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A-Barr
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Post by A-Barr » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:44 am

Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
??????? wrote:
nate wrote: I don't know why but every time I build an amp, it sounds lackluster for about the first 60 to 100 hours and then everything seems to gel. Even through old speakers, etc. so it's not the speaker aging.
It may be psychology. It takes time to adjust to a new amp.
That is about the timeframe that Sozo recommends for breaking in caps.

???????
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Post by ??????? » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:04 am

hey get your quotes straight! I didn't say that! :D

???????
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Post by ??????? » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:06 am

Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
It may be psychology. It takes time to adjust to a new amp.
Doubtful. I've played repaired and built more than my share of amps. There aren't too many surprises anymore. :D

Next time you build an amp, just turn it on and let it sit there and 'burn in' for two straight days and tell me if you don't notice a change in the sound (probably for the better) afterwards.

???????
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Post by ??????? » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:10 am

A-Barr wrote: That is about the timeframe that Sozo recommends for breaking in caps.
Found that site. Here is what they say
Break-in

Simply; The sound gets clear. It at first sounds smeared.

Technically;

Several things happen. The major thing is; during the break in period, the dielectric material (the insulating material) interacts negatively with the signal flow. The dielectric absorbs and releases energy as opposed to passing it through the capacitor. Uncooperatively, this is occurring at chaotic intervals.

This sporadic interaction is changing signal flow through the capacitor. However, the dielectric material changes over time as voltage is applied to the capacitor. The voltage creates heat, and a polarized skin forms on the surface of the dielectric (called skinning).

The dielectric then has a path through which to absorb and release energy, and does so at the correct times due to the formed path. (Like a path through a forest that is traveled over and over). Also over time, as voltage is applied to the conductors (the foil) the metal tempers, creating patterns as well (electricity will take the path of lowest resistance).

There are other reasons like skin effect (With an alternating current, there is a delay in the magnetic field's response to the change in current and the 'old' magnetic field tends to push the current towards the outside of the conductor. As the frequency increases, so does the effect until at very high frequencies the entire current flows in a very narrow skin on the conductor--hence the name).

One other consideration is self inductance (The property of self inductance is a particular form of electromagnetic induction. Self inductance is defined as the induction of a voltage in a current-carrying material when the current in the wire itself is changing). Although this is a non-inductively wound capacitor; meaning, careful attention is made to not produce inductance with the design, there is an inductance due to the alternating voltage.

Every electrical component has a break in period. Some are more noticeable then others. Signal carrying components are the most obvious. It will take approximately 100 hours of operation for the capacitor to function to full performance.

-SoZo Amplification
That certainly bears out what I've observed in my own personal experience.

runrunrun
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Post by runrunrun » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:14 pm

im sorry for my earlier smartass reply...i kinda thought this was a joke thread when i saw the huge picture of chewy and such...

regarding the "break-in period" for components, is it best to run signal through it for 100 hours or just leave it on? is something like pink noise a good idea or just a sine wave or ???

???????
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Post by ??????? » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:59 pm

It's best to just play it for awhile and suspend judgement until you've put about 100 hours on it. You can just leave it on, that will help, or putting signal through it, who knows. I'm no help sorry. :D

Andy Peters
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Post by Andy Peters » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:36 am

??????? wrote:
A-Barr wrote: That is about the timeframe that Sozo recommends for breaking in caps.
Found that site. Here is what they say
There are other reasons like skin effect (With an alternating current, there is a delay in the magnetic field's response to the change in current and the 'old' magnetic field tends to push the current towards the outside of the conductor. As the frequency increases, so does the effect until at very high frequencies the entire current flows in a very narrow skin on the conductor--hence the name).
That certainly bears out what I've observed in my own personal experience.
They mention skin effect as if it is relevant at audio frequencies. IT IS NOT. And the explanation of skin effect is completely wrong. "Delay in the magnetic field's response to the change in current and the 'old' magnetic field tends to push the current towards the outside of the conductor." Yowza, that's so funny it hurts.

Willful misuse of engineering terms like this makes the rest of their discussion suspect.

-a
"On the internet, nobody can hear you mix a band."

hulahalau
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My experience

Post by hulahalau » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:50 pm

Jim Williams wrote:Resistors can make a significant improvement on sonics if the rest of the circuit is up to snuff. If you are already using top notch opamps (not the 4558 stuff these were made with) resistors can add that extra bit of detail. Since all audio runs through them they do affect the sound. Once you have replaced or removed the coupling caps, bypassed those with quality film caps or servos or direct couple with precision opamps, the resistors are next.

I like the Dale RN series for low cost metal films. Next up the food chain is Caddocks. Further on up the road is the Vishay bulk foils, the best resistors hands down but you will pay dearly for them. Using silver based solder also helps.

Try it and report your findings...
When I first got into audiphile tuff in mid-1970s, I used Corning MFs, but did not particularly like them - much quieter than carbon comps, but same kind of "tizziness" or harshness added upper mids and highs.

I next used Holcos, which have tinned copper leads. I like these, but they now have steel leads so I do not use them (I still have a small stash of them in various values).

I am planning to try IRC metal films, GS series, which IRC specs as having tinned copper leads, which about the same as the Dales; and the Caddocks. Nelson Pass likes Dales!

I can't afford bulk metal films like the Vishays! Anyone have experience with them? Same thing with tantalum resistors.

As far as audio voodoo, for the price I am paying, I find little or no difference in cables once I get decent copper, shielding and insulation (PS, PP or teflon). Resistors make a clear difference, and replacing electrolytics caps with PP or PS films with copper leads make a clear difference. However, using PP or Ps caps with steel leads makes much less of a difference. I get the best bang for the buck (by far, out of anything that I do) by cleaning and treating my audio contacts with Cramolin Red and Gold.

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