Fun with Overheads!
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Fun with Overheads!
So I had a little time this afternoon and there are a few new microphones hanging around the Oxide Lounge. I recently got a reconditioned Neumann Gefell CMV 563 with an M7 capsule. I also bought some hopefully groovy AKG dynamics: 2 D1000e (which William Wittman said on another site is to sound similar to the hallowed D19) and I also ran across a D119es which JJ Blair told me will sound quite close to the D19. Also through my good friend Mark Rubel of Pogo Studio I have a Peluso P12 for ?evaluation.?
I though it would be fun to et them all up as mono overheads similar to what one sees in pictures of Ringo Starr at Abbey Road. I augmented these overheads with a vintage AKG D12e on the bass drum. All mic were run through my Neotek Elan II console pres with no EQ or other processing. I recorded to the RADAR at 24/88.2 and then did the mixes back to 2 channels. They are mono, but I wasn?t sure if I could burn CDs from mono mixes so I made 2-channel mono mixes.
To aid in my shootout I had my good friend Jeff Greeneberg of 100 Year Picnic come by to do a little playing. This way I was able to set gain and check for phase issues while he played. I recorded Jeff playing a bunch of stuff, and then myself after Jeff had gone.
The posted MP3s are at 192k. Each is titled with the OH mic name and either JG for Jeff Greeneberg or TS for me. Jeff?s stuff is a little more open and slight softer. I laid in a bit and played more of the ?rock.? Each examples is a little over a minute.
The difference in these examples is pretty interesting and cool. I didn?t change the BD level; I just went through and adjusted each overhead to be of similar level as the last.
My general impressions are these:
The CMV 563 is dark and pretty thick. I?m not sure how often I?d use it as an overhead, but it does have a certain vibe about it.
The P12 sounds like an L.A. big-time super studio record. As most (all?) of you know this is John Peluso?s take on the classic AKG C12. If he?s even a little bit close to an actual C12 I can see why so many of the L.A. cats seem to use them so much as overheads. I?ve seen tons of pictures and heard lots of the ?cats? talk of using C12s for overheads.
The D119es sounds really cool kind of familiar. Even without compression it seems to compress the snare and toms in a nice way. It paints a nice picture of the drums without a lot of ?hype.?
The D1000e was a total wild card. I got 2 of them recently, to I only tested one today. It?s crunchy and a little weird, but not in a bad way. I can see myself using this as and ?ALT OH? to blend underneath the regular drum sound to add some grungy crunch.
Jules over at Gearslutz told me it would be fine to Link to a thread over there where all of the MP3s are uploaded and at the ready check it out at Gearslutz
ENJOY!
And here's a picture:
I though it would be fun to et them all up as mono overheads similar to what one sees in pictures of Ringo Starr at Abbey Road. I augmented these overheads with a vintage AKG D12e on the bass drum. All mic were run through my Neotek Elan II console pres with no EQ or other processing. I recorded to the RADAR at 24/88.2 and then did the mixes back to 2 channels. They are mono, but I wasn?t sure if I could burn CDs from mono mixes so I made 2-channel mono mixes.
To aid in my shootout I had my good friend Jeff Greeneberg of 100 Year Picnic come by to do a little playing. This way I was able to set gain and check for phase issues while he played. I recorded Jeff playing a bunch of stuff, and then myself after Jeff had gone.
The posted MP3s are at 192k. Each is titled with the OH mic name and either JG for Jeff Greeneberg or TS for me. Jeff?s stuff is a little more open and slight softer. I laid in a bit and played more of the ?rock.? Each examples is a little over a minute.
The difference in these examples is pretty interesting and cool. I didn?t change the BD level; I just went through and adjusted each overhead to be of similar level as the last.
My general impressions are these:
The CMV 563 is dark and pretty thick. I?m not sure how often I?d use it as an overhead, but it does have a certain vibe about it.
The P12 sounds like an L.A. big-time super studio record. As most (all?) of you know this is John Peluso?s take on the classic AKG C12. If he?s even a little bit close to an actual C12 I can see why so many of the L.A. cats seem to use them so much as overheads. I?ve seen tons of pictures and heard lots of the ?cats? talk of using C12s for overheads.
The D119es sounds really cool kind of familiar. Even without compression it seems to compress the snare and toms in a nice way. It paints a nice picture of the drums without a lot of ?hype.?
The D1000e was a total wild card. I got 2 of them recently, to I only tested one today. It?s crunchy and a little weird, but not in a bad way. I can see myself using this as and ?ALT OH? to blend underneath the regular drum sound to add some grungy crunch.
Jules over at Gearslutz told me it would be fine to Link to a thread over there where all of the MP3s are uploaded and at the ready check it out at Gearslutz
ENJOY!
And here's a picture:
- fossiltooth
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Cool post Tony.
The P12 sounds instantly "good" in a modern, one-size fits all, no-brainer kinda way. Very open and immediately pleasant.
The 119 is kinda cool but kinda feels like a somewhat hollow perversion of the classic dynamic mic overhead sound of the d19. Maybe I'm just hearing the closely placed diffusors interact with that particular mic in a weird kinda way. I just don't know.... it's not quite there for me.
The 1000 sounds like cool alternative OH mic to me.
The CMV with the M7 capsule was simultaneuosly a bit too dark, forward and crunchy for my regular tastes, but I could imagine it being great now and again. I'm not a big fan of the way the cymbals came across with it, but the snare tone was pretty cool. It was kinda like the converse of the the P12 snare tone.
Tell me about that snare, I didn't see any muffling in the pics, but it sounded pretty well-balanced, dry and controlled on your takes, but fairly open and ringy on Jeff's takes... does it all come down to touch, or did you throw a moongel or something near the rim for your takes?
It's always amazing to hear the same kit sound so different in tone and balance when played by two different drummers.
The P12 sounds instantly "good" in a modern, one-size fits all, no-brainer kinda way. Very open and immediately pleasant.
The 119 is kinda cool but kinda feels like a somewhat hollow perversion of the classic dynamic mic overhead sound of the d19. Maybe I'm just hearing the closely placed diffusors interact with that particular mic in a weird kinda way. I just don't know.... it's not quite there for me.
The 1000 sounds like cool alternative OH mic to me.
The CMV with the M7 capsule was simultaneuosly a bit too dark, forward and crunchy for my regular tastes, but I could imagine it being great now and again. I'm not a big fan of the way the cymbals came across with it, but the snare tone was pretty cool. It was kinda like the converse of the the P12 snare tone.
Tell me about that snare, I didn't see any muffling in the pics, but it sounded pretty well-balanced, dry and controlled on your takes, but fairly open and ringy on Jeff's takes... does it all come down to touch, or did you throw a moongel or something near the rim for your takes?
It's always amazing to hear the same kit sound so different in tone and balance when played by two different drummers.
Last edited by fossiltooth on Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I'm glad you liked it Justin. I pretty much feel the same way you do about the different mics. I think with a little position futzing the D119 will be super cool for some things. The P12 just sounds like L.A to me. I just got off the Front End Audio site to price those things. Shit now I gotta find $2500.
The snare is an older Bison 5x14 maple that I put a diecast top rim on. It's got a slightly beat Emperor on it. It's a really great drum. I got it in 1992. The ringing on Jeff's tracks is 100% his technique. When plays rimshot backbeats the tip hits off center and pulls out the ring. I've know him for years and that's a big part of his sound no matter what drum he's playing. I play my rimshots with the tip hitting the center (unless I'm trying for what I think of as the Greeneberg ring). There's no moongel anywhere oon the drums for these examples.
Thanks for listening!
The snare is an older Bison 5x14 maple that I put a diecast top rim on. It's got a slightly beat Emperor on it. It's a really great drum. I got it in 1992. The ringing on Jeff's tracks is 100% his technique. When plays rimshot backbeats the tip hits off center and pulls out the ring. I've know him for years and that's a big part of his sound no matter what drum he's playing. I play my rimshots with the tip hitting the center (unless I'm trying for what I think of as the Greeneberg ring). There's no moongel anywhere oon the drums for these examples.
Thanks for listening!
hey. thanks for putting these together.
I'm trying to not suck so bad on drums. Would you mind explaining these two different methods in a little more detail?drumsound wrote:When plays rimshot backbeats the tip hits off center and pulls out the ring. ..........(unless I'm trying for what I think of as the Greeneberg ring).
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I have about ten D119's that I got from an estate sale auction thinking that they were D19's. I was there with my roommate who was bidding on a couch. The guy said "A box of microphones with a Shure Unnn-dine and an ACK-EG D-One-NINE. I was pissed when I got home and realized there was another one added on.
I put them in a corner out of sheer frustration.
I might have to try them out tomorrow.
Thanks Tony.
Ian
I put them in a corner out of sheer frustration.
I might have to try them out tomorrow.
Thanks Tony.
Ian
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According to a massive D19 freak the 119 is pretty close. I've got the perfect session for the D119 Oh on Monday. Saturday's will have the P12 (man I want a pair after doing this).i am monster face wrote:I have about ten D119's that I got from an estate sale auction thinking that they were D19's. I was there with my roommate who was bidding on a couch. The guy said "A box of microphones with a Shure Unnn-dine and an ACK-EG D-One-NINE. I was pissed when I got home and realized there was another one added on.
I put them in a corner out of sheer frustration.
I might have to try them out tomorrow.
Thanks Tony.
Ian
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Yep that's it. It's a physics thing.??????? wrote:The closer to center you hit the head on the drum, the fewer overtones/less ringing you will get out of the drum. Try it!
The drummer's touch is so very important! I saw some Conan reruns this week from when Max Weinberg was on the road with Springsteen. They had a sub "who was quite good). He played on Max's drums with the same mics, yet sounded very different.
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snares
snares, (and hi hats) are very versatile things. alot of people cant get that many sound out of a snare. just spending a afternoon playing just your snare is always good for you. what kind of snare you got?
time is money and im wasting both...
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Chris, it's "What kind of snare do you have?"
Your Grammar Nazi,
Ian Aeillo
Come visit me in Omaha.
Tony, I threw up the D119 today, just playing around, and I really, really liked it as just a mono overhead. Thank you so much! I usually go with a 635A or a EV 665, but I really enjoyed this mic.
Ian
Your Grammar Nazi,
Ian Aeillo
Come visit me in Omaha.
Tony, I threw up the D119 today, just playing around, and I really, really liked it as just a mono overhead. Thank you so much! I usually go with a 635A or a EV 665, but I really enjoyed this mic.
Ian
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theres
theres this certain sorta pop ring sorta noise you can get in a certain spot. a sweet spot if you will. just try hittin your snare all over the place without hitting the rim, and then go back and do the same thing again with rim shots. youll find some good stuff. i promise. i have a pearl chad smith drum that has a great rim shot spot that is just plain 2 loud. a great live snare. just keepin messing around with, and then get on google and go to town
time is money and im wasting both...
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sorry
sorry ian. ive been listening to waaaay 2 much hip hop. my grammar went down the tizzoilet...
why does snoop dogg have a umbrella? FO WHEN IT DRIZZLES!!!
why does snoop dogg have a umbrella? FO WHEN IT DRIZZLES!!!
time is money and im wasting both...
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Man...
I'm loving that CMV. Garges just sent me some drums utilizing a pair of those in the "Glyn Johns" array and I was blown away....you, sir, are just rubbing it in!
The D119 actually sounded cooler than I thought it would for some reason.....interestingly old school.
Those were my favorites, though I thought they all sounded good and plenty useful in different ways.
Cool stuff! Now go ahead and send me that crappy old crunchy dark CMV for proper diposal.
[dt]
I'm loving that CMV. Garges just sent me some drums utilizing a pair of those in the "Glyn Johns" array and I was blown away....you, sir, are just rubbing it in!
The D119 actually sounded cooler than I thought it would for some reason.....interestingly old school.
Those were my favorites, though I thought they all sounded good and plenty useful in different ways.
Cool stuff! Now go ahead and send me that crappy old crunchy dark CMV for proper diposal.
[dt]
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