Holy crap this thing is awesome

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

lharless
takin' a dinner break
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:06 pm

Post by lharless » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:14 am

Dear Joel,

I am jealous.


Lee

Electricide
dead but not forgotten
Posts: 2105
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:04 am
Location: phoenix

Post by Electricide » Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:30 am

psssht, $6000 in weed will make your stuff sound 80% better.

User avatar
Marc Alan Goodman
george martin
Posts: 1400
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:57 pm
Location: NYC
Contact:

Post by Marc Alan Goodman » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:35 pm

Analog has it's own limitations as well, they're just a different set of limitations. At this point i think it's impossible to compare them other than by your own personal taste, and your own decisions about what would be appropriate for any given project.

As far as your question 8th Note, clock has a serious effect on the sound every time you make a conversion from Analog to Digital or vice versa. So if it's improving the signal while tracking, and then again when it's running out of the box to go through all the outboard gear, and AGAIN when the two track comes back into the computer it should have a HUGE effect on the CD at the end, even if the CD isn't being played back with a crazy clock. There was just so much less loss on the way there.

However if you were for instance taking pre-tracked material that was already in a digital format and mixing it / bouncing it / entirely in the box the clock would do absolutely nothing except make you feel better about yourself while you were listening (or, arguably, allow you to do slightly better mixes since you could hear what's going on so much better).

When we demoed the clock, we only listened to one conversion, although it was across a number of tracks. We listened to a mix we were working on coming out of the box, and then through the console and to the speakers. If it made that much of a difference during only one of our conversions I can only imagine what will happen when it's applied to the three that we usually make while working on a project.

I hope that clears things up!

-marc alan goodman

madtho
steve albini likes it
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:01 pm
Location: Makin' it in MA
Contact:

Re: Holy crap this thing is awesome

Post by madtho » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:17 pm

joel hamilton wrote:The Antelope OCXV with the 10M atomic clock source. WOW.
Rats.
I read that first sentence and thought that Joel was parodying himself. Come to find that's really the name of something.

Well, congratulations on getting more awesomer. [plugs in new-used 57]

Electricide wrote:psssht, $6000 in weed will make your stuff sound 80% better.
yes.

-mad
We wanted to play traditional jazz in the worst way...and we did!
-Dave Van Ronk

punkrockdude
gettin' sounds
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:25 am

Post by punkrockdude » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:12 pm

Joel H and Marcocet, when we are on the subject of clocks, do you know from own experience or other trustful friends that something like the Black Lion Audio Micro Clock can improve an Echo Layla3G? Black Lion Audio themselves replied to me and said that it will make quite big improvements but I would like to hear your thoughts.

The Echo Layla3G sounds good on its own but who doesn't want even better sound? I clocked it using ADAT and SPDIF from an RME ADI-2 but I didn't notice any difference. Does that mean that an WORD clock won't help either?

Best Regards

joel hamilton
zen recordist
Posts: 8876
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 12:10 pm
Location: NYC/Brooklyn
Contact:

Post by joel hamilton » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:39 pm

burn wrote:As a digital recording novice, there is something I don't get, when you said whith this clock everything get 15% better, does that mean that if you record/mix stricktly on an analog setup (2" to neve, no computer involved) the result will be sooo much better than with the computer without a really expensive clock?
The numbers are just relative, sake-of-argument- type of nmbers. I dunno about percentages just thrown around arbitrarily. Lets say that I personally think tape [my Studer A827] sounds 40% better than PTHD with my aardsync II clocking it. with that number now established "against tape" then lets say that Tape is less than 25% "better" than my PTHD rig with the 10M clocking it. The rest of your question I dont know. I am not doing this as an experiment, or to sell anything, or to prove anything. I just heard a massive improvement in my existing setup using this clock source.

Now as for this one:
8th_note wrote:If the thing makes that much improvement I could see how it would be worth the money. The question I have, however, is if the difference will translate into a better sound of a mixed and mastered CD - or even the raw tracks for that matter.

If you recorded tracks with your standard clock and another set of similar tracks with the Antelope, mixed them down to 44.1/16, and played them on your CD player, does the dramatic difference still hold up?
If you recorded something with garageband, and made a CD, do you think you could tell the difference between that and a recording you did at a studio with a nice 24 track and a nice console and then burned a CD?

Of course you can hear the difference, man. Anything you do will affect the end result, just as anything you use in the process of recording will have a positive or negative [subjectively, or course] effect on the finished product. If this were not the case I would just use the cheapest possible things I could get my hands on, and call it a day. I would MUCH rather spend some time with my wife somewhere warm than toss a bazillion dollars at stuff that doesnt actually help me get better end products for people. Remember that in the end, this is not really for my benefit, it is so I can give people the utmost quality that I am capable of, with the best tools I can get at any given time. It is fun to use this stuff and everything, but if nobody wanted to record with me it would be pretty pointless, wouldnt it?

User avatar
bannerj
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 625
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:40 pm
Location: Holland, MI
Contact:

Post by bannerj » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:50 pm

roscoenyc wrote:I remember my first outboard clock 8)

all kidding aside I bet the Antelope sounds great.

there are a lot of clocks out there that will help peoples rigs from the Black Lion to the Antelope stuff. If your using a DAW it will sound better with an outboard clock.
yeah, I just got the tweak head mod from BLA on the school's 002 rack. I hated the 002 rack previously and went DP with a Metric Halo 2882. The 2882 is great, but the tweak head mod seriously improved my monitoring by that 15% margin. i wish I could hear this thing Joel is talking about...but my two cents are that yes, better converters/clocking are a huge help...especially for me as a novice mixer.

RefD
on a wing and a prayer
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:10 pm

Post by RefD » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:34 pm

Electricide wrote:psssht, $6000 in weed will stuff you 80% better.
?What need is there to weep over parts of life? The whole of it calls for tears.? -- Seneca

User avatar
emrr
buyin' a studio
Posts: 806
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:21 am
Location: NC
Contact:

Post by emrr » Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:33 pm

Electricide wrote:psssht, $6000 in weed will make your stuff sound 80% better.
Is that what you're spending your $6K on instead? Weed? Really?
Doug Williams
ElectroMagnetic Radiation Recorders
Tape Op issue 73

OM15.2
suffering 'studio suck'
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:45 pm
Location: tripping security alarms

Post by OM15.2 » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:53 am

emrr wrote:
Electricide wrote:psssht, $6000 in weed will make your stuff sound 80% better.
Is that what you're spending your $6K on instead? Weed? Really?
ummm i don't think he has recieved his $6000 yet. Is there somewhere we can all apply?

punkrockdude
gettin' sounds
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:25 am

Post by punkrockdude » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:48 am

BUMP... Joel, pr anyone else? Regards

User avatar
JohnDavisNYC
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3035
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:43 pm
Location: crooklyn, ny
Contact:

Post by JohnDavisNYC » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:22 am

i really want to hear this thing.... if it takes the suck out of DAWs, and finally gets the sonic performance into the realm of dedicated hardware like a Studer 2", or a Radar, or a Fairlight MFX, it will be revolutionary... granted, it isn't for everyone (DUH.), but for people who actually need DAWs to sound good (hardware good, not just acceptable good) it will be worth it.... i mean... a Fairlight is $50,000, a Studer was that much before they cost $10, and a full top of the line Radar rig is around $20,000...

just as those platforms are not for everyone, an atomic clock is not for everyone...

if it can make PT sound so much better, as Joel and Michael Brauer say, it is definitely worth the money for people working on that level... it sounds like it just makes PT actually sound like professional equipment, so it doesn't get in the way of getting good sounds, and allows the mics, preamps, and console to sound the way they really sound without a calculator in the signal path.

bla bla bla... i can't wait to hear it with my own two ears when Joel gets his installed.

John
i like to make music with music and stuff and things.

http://www.thebunkerstudio.com/

chris harris
speech impediment
Posts: 4270
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:31 pm
Location: Norman, OK
Contact:

Post by chris harris » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:24 am

punkrockdude wrote:BUMP... Joel, pr anyone else? Regards
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that if you're using an Echo interface, there are probably better ways for you to spend $6000. But, I'd also bet that a high end clock would probably improve your converters. But, I'd rather have high end converters on their internal clock than mid range stuff being clocked by a ridiculously high end clock.

punkrockdude
gettin' sounds
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:25 am

Post by punkrockdude » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:13 pm

subatomic pieces wrote:
punkrockdude wrote:BUMP... Joel, pr anyone else? Regards
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that if you're using an Echo interface, there are probably better ways for you to spend $6000...
No, no. I didn't mean that I wil spend 6000 to improve my Layla3G, but maybe 400 for the Black Lion Micro Clock. Regards

joel hamilton
zen recordist
Posts: 8876
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 12:10 pm
Location: NYC/Brooklyn
Contact:

Post by joel hamilton » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:34 pm

punkrockdude wrote:
subatomic pieces wrote:
punkrockdude wrote:BUMP... Joel, pr anyone else? Regards
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that if you're using an Echo interface, there are probably better ways for you to spend $6000...
No, no. I didn't mean that I wil spend 6000 to improve my Layla3G, but maybe 400 for the Black Lion Micro Clock. Regards
Clocking is crucial. That much we know about digital recording. Whether or not to spend a lot of money on a clock is entirely case by case, and only you can decide if it is "worth it" or if this is something you "need" right now. As with any upgrade, it has to be a part of a balanced upgrade approach to the whole studio/recording chain. Any of the great places I have worked in have always had a nice balanced system happening in their studios. The bunker, for example, has a great console, with a totally solid mic selection, coupled with some great outboard mic pre's, a RADAR and Logic, along with a nice old studer A80. couple those elements with the actual effort of the two owners, and their engineering skills and you have a very nice, balanced system happening. They dont have 14 U47's, but they have a perfect number of U87's: 2. along with the many, many other great microphones .
The mic pre selections are solid. My place is the same way, avatar is the same way, translator audio in dumbo, excelo, cowboy technical services... all of these places have balanced systems that work really, really well.

That being said, the very reason that I am so fired up about this clock, is because I can not think of any other thing I have purchased over the years (besides a nice vintage neve console) that sinply changed my day to day recording reality.

At what point you personally think it is "all bullshit" or "audiopphile snake oil crap logs" or whatever, is entirely up to you. Until I could hear the difference, anything that recorded sound in the 80's was my favorite way to record. Protools wasnt invented yet when I startd recording, so the idea of a "clock source" because I did not do any mixing for films or anything that required more than smpte was like up there with unicorns and elves for me.

But now, 10 days away from 2008, I am incredibly excited that this technology exists, because for me, with this clock, digital just got good.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 83 guests