The Importance of having a Mentor/Prot?g

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Ryan Silva
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The Importance of having a Mentor/Prot?g

Post by Ryan Silva » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:16 pm

I was curious of how many of us could attribute any success we have had as an engineer/producer to others. I can imagine these influences come from a variety of places, like maybe an internship or that person you call up when you need feedback on a mix. I can assume that there will be some of us that had to be trained buy nothing more than listing to music hours a day.

Also, I was wondering if there comes a point in which you feel a desire to share all that you have learned, and take on a Prot?g?.

Just food for thought
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Post by i am monster face » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:37 pm

I owe absolutely everything I know to AJ and Mike Mogis. They might not know it, but everything they do, I watch. Well, not everything. From when I didn't know what playlists were in Pro Tools to being patient with me while I have dumb questions about the patchbay, those guys have always been supportive and patient with me.

I have also learned, from my earliest days, to make one hell of a cup of coffee and the importance of cleaning the bathrooms.

I feel extremely lucky to be able to work with those guys. I really do believe I have the best job in the world and everyday I learn something new from one of them.

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Post by cgarges » Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:35 pm

I've had many people whom I can directly thank for their influence on me as an engineer. Some of these people are folks with whom I've spent a few hours in the studio, some of whom I've been around A LOT. The key people for me would have to be David Floyd, Erin Thorpe, Joe Zook, Kurt Lundvall, Tom Sweeney, Eddie Z, Jamie Hoover, Joe Kuhlmann, Rob Preston, Hoyt Dooley, Chris Blair, Dave Harris, David Black, Don Dixon, Mitch Easter, Matt Everhart, Mark Berry, Tracey Schroeder, Brent Lambert, Tony SanFilippo, Dave Rapheal, and Mark Williams.

I love to share what little I do know, especially with people who are enthusiastic about it. That's why I hang out here. I'm really, really selective about interns, though, and I generally prefer not to have extra people around the studio during my sessions, but I'm more than happy to hang out and talk shop with people.

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Post by @?,*???&? » Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:34 pm

This should really be in the 'People Skills' area...

Mentors indeed taught me process and flow. I have no clue if most of the people I worked with had that mutual respect, but I tried to deliver competent and complete work with good initiative.

Gavin MacKillop, Joe Chiccarelli, Chris Tsangarides, Jim Scott, John Porter, Chris Fuhrman, Tracy Chisholm, Tony Phillips, Dave McNair, Mike Shipley were all great people to work for AND with.

With the teaching thing, I have alot of people trying to pick my brain these days. The people who really want to learn will hang around alot for free and that's the way it's always been. I know that's exactly what I did early on.

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Post by theBaldfather » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:00 am

I never got to intern in a studio, but I learned so much from recording two albums in the real deal. Nathan Danzler in Nashville, and Sylvia Massy from radiostar studios in Weed, CA taught me so much about the recording process. If I hadn't done those two records, I would probably still be mucking around and trying to learn things I learned long ago.
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Post by scott anthony » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:16 am

My relationships to mentors were never formal arrangements, they're more like certain gigs where I learned and made exponential leaps not only technically, but also (and more importantly) in process and serving the gig.

When I left college to pursue this full-time in 1984, there were very few places to go. University of Lowell, University of Miami, maybe a couple of others. The most viable option for me in Maine was to apprentice with a band doing shows. That first year on the road with Jeff Strout was so important to learning those ropes.

After moving to NYC in '89, Kent Schuyler gave me huge breaks and taught me much about running sessions. Daniel Lanois, Mario Caldato, and Chris Butler all really tightened up my game at various points.

The good opportunities to either learn or teach have always seemed to just happen. Never really had any luck forcing these exchanges with "proteges" or mentors.

Everybody has something to teach, if it wasn't for those early frustrating sessions watching another hack at my mixes with Sound Tools, I'd never have got into mastering...

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Post by drumsound » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:04 pm

First off I'd have to say my music teachers and most importantly the conductors I've worked with. Conducting is all about the blend of the ensemble, as well as making a musical statement. Not unlike a producer they are not concerned about perfect technique, just if the sound and the music are shining through. They taught me about the roll of the different instruments at any given time during a piece of music. I learned about how my parts interacted with others and i learned how to listen.

In the studio I site first my old boss Edwin Pierce. Before he hired me my band recorded with him. I remember him doing the same things a good conductor does. On a mid-tempo Neil Young meets Urge Overkill song he had just me (on drums) and the bass player run the tune and really be aware of how we placed the pocket and how we supported the guitar riff and the vocal. It was while we were recording that I was offered the job, quite off handedly. When I started he taught me a bit about compression and EQ and let me at the studio. I took his example and always was very hands on with all the artists I work with. My good friend Chuck Fudge was a live engineer and part time studio guy ad he taught me about EQ and also about phase is ways that I could actually grasp. I still occasionally get to work with them both and I' always so happy when I do.

The online community took over where those guys left off. In the early days of Rec.Audio.Pro I learned a ton of cool things. Cat's like Scott Dorsey, Mixerman before he was n author and media personality, Mike somebody (he wrote product manuals as a day job), Fletcher and a bunch of others. It was a lot cooler then and every other thread wasn't about what mic pre to buy next. That of course morphed into sites like this where more great cats hang out.

Mark Rubel at Pogo Studio has been nothing but a helpful friend for many years now.

Let's not forget TapeOpCon where I have met some amazing folks and even got to present with Joe Chiccarelli. That was completely mind blowing on so many levels.

Lately I'd have to say my mentor is none other than our own Chris Garges. We talk on the phone at least weekly and I always get something really cool out of our talks. I'm gonna be an authority on M/S recording someday thanks to him. I called him before a really cool session on Monday because I was in a quandary about room mic with a whole band in one room. We went through a few options and he confirmed a few thoughts I had and made me think about things I hadn't .

Plus there are the hundreds of artists I've worked with. Each hears things differently, writes and plays differently. I have to think on my feet to give them what they want and need and also get whet I want and need from them. Often time that involves a bit of 'translation' to understand what it is they are even saying. When I can make something happen that makes them stand up and say "YEA that's what I want!" I always get a sense of pride and accomplishment.

Specifically Ed Anderson from Backyard Tire Fire. I'm pretty sure someday he and I will produce other artists as a team, besides for working on his material.

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Post by rwc » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:32 pm

My best mentors have been the clients. Not any in particular, but everyone I have recorded has required a different workflow. Each person was recording different instrumentations, for different genres of music. I've talked to/watched other engineers but nothing compares to actually recording people.

I'd rather get shot in the genitals than be an assistant in one a frat boy masochist "sorry to be hard on you but that's just how it is and how it always will be" studio, which is what a lot of major studios are. This doesn't pay enough for me to do it if I don't enjoy it.

A business is the way it is because of the people who comprise it. It is a direct reflection of the actions and decisions these people make. Nothing is "just how it is" without support from the person saying that, who himself is making the business that way.

I've had the opportunity to watch, as a guest, sessions at one of the sickest studios there is. Stuff sounds good automatically(to an extent) unless you're a total clod - you really can't fuck up in perfect rooms. But I got to see just how chewed out assistants get. I noticed I do that too, to an extent, if there is an 'intern' or whatever around at one of the regular spots I record at. There's a high turnover there because it's a lame facility, but I use it because I can for free, and with work, can make it an acceptable environment for recording. If something is seriously wrong, it's almost natural to "lean" on the assistant and have unrealistic expectations of him or her to get things working, or have a perfect memory. You give him stuff to do that he could know how to do, or that wouldn't take you less time to do than it would to teach him how, and a lot of people take advantage of this. I decided then that a) I never want to have assistants - I never use them, and b) I never want to be one.

I've never had a mentor for recording. I've discussed recording with people who I consider friends and we've showed each other our work and learned from our knowledge. It's great to learn stuff like that in an environment where there's no ego.

I like to think I've taught myself through making some of the biggest, stupidest mistakes there are to make, and from reading places like tape-op. Over the past few months I decided I knew enough to do it to a standard where I could get paid for it, and run real sessions. Since then I've been recording a lot more.
Last edited by rwc on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by vvv » Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:56 am

Those whom I collaborate with on recording my/their/our stuff, and a couple of websites, nost notably (surprise!) TOMB.
bandcamp;
blog.
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assisting

Post by ideaofnorth » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:51 am

i assisted at a local studio here in portland maine for a couple of years, all volunteer work. even though i tend to do things now in a pretty scrappy/diy fashion, learning the proper way to do stuff is pretty invaluable in my opinion. mic technique alone is pretty tough to learn from a book/trial and error. before working there i read tons of books, interviews, tomb, everything i could get my hands on. but without access to a variety of mics & preamps, how will you know what a guitar cabinet with a u87 and a 57 sounds like vs the 57 alone? also workflow, dealing with conflicts, keeping sessions moving and on task, etc...

i consider myself pretty much diy all the way, but having assisted on a crazy variety of sessions definitely gives me more options doing my own stuff. for me a big part of it was learning to be helpful while staying out of the way. there's usually a balance between the engineer, producer and artist that you don't want to disturb if possible. try to be a fly on the wall, keep the coffee going and the pencils sharpened, and you'll probably learn a ton.

as a sidenote, one of the highlights of my work there was having james cotton strike up a conversation with me. awesome!

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