SM7B vs. RE20

[MASSIVE Mastering]

Would anyone please care to compare/contrast the MD421 with these mics being discussed? I don't have one yet - should I? It would serve many of the same purposes, wouldn't it?

It's certainly another "staple" mic - Everyone should have one available. Good for vocals - A little more "hype" than the 7b/20/27's... A bit more "Euro" sounding (for lack of a better term).

Don't bother with the "Music / Speech" switch though... Far too hefty of a roll-off IMO.

[CarlWelden]

An SM7 will do just about anything an RE20 will do, but an RE20 won't do a lot of what an SM7 can do.....

Long ago I learned it is wisest to search before posting. Still, I'm glad this is a common thread, cause it's the question that's been on my mind all Winter. While shopping for one of these two, here's what I've gleaned:

While I was all gung-ho for the EV RE20 at first, I am now in favor of the Shure SM7B for my needs: voice over applications.
While the RE20 is still the bludgeon of choice as the industry standard, the SM7B does have a few "values for features" that the EV does not.

The SM7B is shielded for electronic interference, say from the computer monitor you're staring at. The RE20 is not.
The SM7B has an integral shock mount and a mounting bracket, the RE20 is sold separately (is it really $99?).
The SM7B comes with 2 external windscreen/pop filters, the RE20 does not.
Lastly,at ~$325 you can buy four SM7B's for the price of three RE20's, not that you'd need that many.

The only thing that seemed like a downside is that the SM7B needs 60db (59db according to Shure) of gain, but then I saw that even the bargain priced ART Tube MP preamps can power it. So what am I waiting for?

I am waiting for the chance to try them out, because every voice is different. What my friends say works great for them might sound God awful for me. Heck, we have trepidations about ordering shoes online based on a number/size that is supposed to fit you. At least everyone presumably knows their shoe-size, but how well do we know our vocal dynamics?

For multi-purpose mic, go with the RE20, but if your specialty application is voice, your "one size fits all" choice and mine is in all likely hood going to be the Shure SM7B.

[tsw]

Two thoughts about the two mics from the original question (even though it seems the poster has long since made his choice):

1. Tchad Blake used an RE-20 on Eitzel's vox for "Mercury." That in itself makes me want that mic.

2. I'm pretty sure none of the vocals for the YHF record were done with an SM7. I know he's singing into one during rehearsals in the movie, but I've read in quite a few places that he recorded into a Mouse (also in movie).

None of this matters, but it's fun to talk about.

[Recycled_Brains]

i just tracked a tune yesterday and used my SM7b on the vocal (female), and i'm happier than a pig in shit about how great it sounds. and the rejection is outstanding (she played the guitar and sang live). i added the presence boost to brighten it up a bit, but haven't need any other EQ at all. it sits so nice in the mix and is smooth as all-get-out.

i've also used SM7's for toms, kick, el. guitar, bass, etc. and it works great for all those. i'd like to have another one to be honest.

my only experience with an RE20 is via observing sessions where it was used on bass cab, where it sounded fine.

i say SM7.

-ryan

[vibesof20hz]

another +1 for the SM7. Every time we have had a mic shoot out on a new vocalist its always the sm7 in the top two.

[emrr]

The only thing that seemed like a downside is that the SM7B needs 60db (59db according to Shure) of gain, but then I saw that even the bargain priced ART Tube MP preamps can power it. So what am I waiting for?

IME, if you put an ART Tube MP with an SM7 for vocal work you will be disturbed by the noise of the ART. I had a client buy that exact setup for his demo work, and he kept sending the ART's back assuming they were broken. Antique tube gear from the 1940's is usually much much quieter than a Tube MP.

[CarlWelden]

The only thing that seemed like a downside is that the SM7B needs 60db (59db according to Shure) of gain, but then I saw that even the bargain priced ART Tube MP preamps can power it. So what am I waiting for?

IME, if you put an ART Tube MP with an SM7 for vocal work you will be disturbed by the noise of the ART. I had a client buy that exact setup for his demo work, and he kept sending the ART's back assuming they were broken. Antique tube gear from the 1940's is usually much much quieter than a Tube MP.

Yeah, I figured as much. Aww phooey!
BSW recommended the DBX 286A rack preamp to go with it at $186.
Too bad I can't use one of these:
http://www.centrance.com/products/mp
(it onlt has around 40db gain)

[asmara]

but then I saw that even the bargain priced ART Tube MP preamps can power it. So what am I waiting for?
.[/quote]

Just wanted to mention that Musician's Friend was blowing out the tube MP for 29. bucks. I thought that was a pretty good deal. I am NOT endorsing this product or musicians' friend I just wanted to let you know.

[GooberNumber9]

IME, if you put an ART Tube MP with an SM7 for vocal work you will be disturbed by the noise of the ART. I had a client buy that exact setup for his demo work, and he kept sending the ART's back assuming they were broken. Antique tube gear from the 1940's is usually much much quieter than a Tube MP.

+1 high noise floor on the Tube MP, especially with any nicer mic. I use my Tube MP as a bass amp/DI and that's about it. It's a great preamp for use with a Tech 21 Bass Driver DI, also. It sounds more like a guitar preamp than a mic preamp to my ears, right down to the noise.

Todd Wilcox

[CarlWelden]

This morning I got to do a mic shootout between the Shure SM7b, the Electro Voice RE20 and the Heil PR40. Seemed an appropriate lineup, since anytime one of these is mentioned, someone chimes in for the other two as well. (Only thing absent on my list was a Sennheiser MD421). My engineer at No Parking Studios ran them through a Grace preamp (it was the shiniest thing in the studio).
To give you an idea what kind of voices I experimented with listen here: http://www.carlwelden.com

The RE20, which I tried first was clear and rich and when I attempted a little falsetto, it did great. I am guessing this is why a lot of female VO artists like it. Certainly is a solid/sturdy looking mic. I did find that a pop filter helped for close-talk applications.

The Shure SM7B got a good workout while we varied the presence boost and bass roll-off settings. It's signal was quieter, but after we adjusted the gain, to me it transmitted just as nice as the RE20. No pop filter used, even for close-talking. Still the model I am leaning towards purchasing.

I was also loaned a Heil PR40, which I concluded was definitely a great mic, but not for my voice. It was much more sensitive than the other two and seemed to make me sound a little shrill. It was so clear and crisp that I decided that it would be my last choice for a home studio with a background noise factor.

There you have my .02 cents.

Thanks to everyone for the preamp notes. When I was seeking for an affordable option, I was looking at ART's newer Project Series $99 Tube MP USB enabled preamp. I've been told it ought to do nicer than the $40 ones as far as "noise". Also pondering a DBX 286A for $180 that BSW recommended for the Shure.

[mwingerski]

A few things I've observed:

The RE20 appears on Thom Yorke's vocals in some of Radiohead's most recent webcasts.

The sm7 shows up in Metallica's "Some kind of monster" documentary (sans windscreen). The Von Bondies also used one of them on parts of Pawn Shoppe Heart. (at least during basic tracking)

I have since discovered the I love the sm7 when tracking vocals in the control room without headphones. I think singing is easier without headphones, and the sm7 is a great mic choice for tracking vocals live in the control room.

[micyourbrain]

hey i was wondering how that PR40 worked out for you if you've got it yet

I did get the mic but unfortunately have not had a chance to really try it out. The only thing I have tried it out on is a loud distorted guitar part and it sounded excellent. That was mostly to make sure the thing worked.

Still dying to know more about the PR-40...

I'm saving up for a 441 or a SM7b and a Nady RSM-4. Still haven't decided. I'll probably just go with whatever I can get a good deal on

Just to chime in on the RE-20, I thought it sounded great on my voice but the lack of prox effect was really a bummer and I wouldn't want to use it for anything but vocals because of that. I use prox effect very carefully and it is a big part of how I get certain things to sound big so I can go easy on EQ later

[CarlWelden]

Like I said earlier, I tried the Heil PR40 along with the other two and it's a fantastic mic, but not for my voice and not for an environment with background noise (computer fans, etc).
It certainly felt well-made and would be much more portable than the Shure.
Apparently it is beloved by many members of the radio broadcast community, who endorse it in the Heil ads.
One funny thing my engineer pointed out was that the Heil has a "talk into this end" label, since a precedent was set by overwhelming complaints from deeply mistaken side-address mic users.
I did not get to try it on any instruments.


In other news, I met a fella who works for PRG and says he can get me quotes on microphones AT COST! Not getting my hopes up, but this buissness ain't cheap.

[micyourbrain]

Thanks Carl, but I'm more interested in the PR-40 as an everything else mic. With the intent that i could put it on anything that I didn't have a good mic for yet and it would round out my mic collection. I'm kinda set on getting an MD441 now, but I imagine I would LOVE the the PR30 or 40 on electric gtr and toms

[mertmo]

micyourbrain-

I have been hanging with Chuckfurock (the original poster) and we have put his new
PR40 to use on a few things. I thought I would offer my initial impressions, even
though we haven't used the mic a WHOLE lot...

I agree with a poster above that said it sounds maybe a little grainy and bright on
vocals. Obviously this varies from vocalist to vocalist. We put it up and thought it
was great until we put up something else that sounded much better at the time.
(Oktava 012 w/ Red capsule. WOW, by the way...)

Also, we A/B'd it against an 80's MD421 on a marshall half stack, recording some
Rhodes piano. We recorded both tracks, they were both very nice. To me, the basic
differences were that the 421 is woolier and fatter, but also not as controlled or
"tailored" maybe. The Heil mic was a bit more Hi-Fi, much smoother and sort of
silkier. More of a balanced tone compared to the 421.

It is definitely brighter than your average dynamic. Think "dynamic that thinks it's
a condenser" and you will have the right idea. That characteristic will be working
for you or against you, depending on the source.

Again, these are my first impressions based on limited use. Nice mic for sure, no
doubt about that.