Nady RSM-4 & RSM-5

[388]

Just bought both of these mic's from an evil company with a good return policy. Planning on trying them both out and keeping the one that sounds the best or if they both sound good (or even just sound different) maybe keep both.

Anyone have any opinions on either one of these mic's? Read some reviews of the RSM-4 but not much on the RSM-5. I've read about the mod's but I'm wondering if anyone has liked them stock.

[qball]

I have the RSM-4. Michael Joly modded mine and it sounds pretty good for a cheap ribbon mic, but not earth shattering. It's dark sounding, but still offers a little high end after Michael removed the layers of mesh. I use it on violin/fiddle with great results. Works on banjo too.

[Michael_Joly]

I've got a big post over at GearSlutz comparing these two and other Chinese ribbon mics: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/1557753-post137.html

In a nutshell, with the recent change to a symmetrical ribbon placement in the RSM5, the RSM4 and RSM5 are now basically the same mic. Both are "short ribbon" mics with HF roll-off that starts at 8kHz due to front-to-back acoustic path length in the ribbon motor. The RSM5, with its rounded grille has a minor advantage of reduced internal standing wave compared to the RSM4 with its parallel-face grille. Any significant differences heard between these two mics will come down to ribbon tension and the resulting fundamental resonance frequency of each mic.

[388]

thanks for the feedback. i've heard these are a little dark and i'm actually thinking that might be good for me. tame those shrill highs on things like hi hats and even upper register vocals.

but basically what you're saying is that the RSM-5 and RSM-4 as they are currently shipping are pretty much the same?

[Michael_Joly]

but basically what you're saying is that the RSM-5 and RSM-4 as they are currently shipping are pretty much the same?

yeah, the current "cardboard box" RSM5 has the same basic motor design as the RSM4. The original "wooden box / shockmount equipped" RSM5 had the Royer-like ribbon offset.

[RodC]

but basically what you're saying is that the RSM-5 and RSM-4 as they are currently shipping are pretty much the same?

yeah, the current "cardboard box" RSM5 has the same basic motor design as the RSM4. The original "wooden box / shockmount equipped" RSM5 had the Royer-like ribbon offset.

I received 2 of them in boxes, Im 99% sure the ribbon is offset. I'll check again when I get home tonight.

[388]

I received 2 of them in boxes, Im 99% sure the ribbon is offset. I'll check again when I get home tonight.

you got two in cardboard boxes?

[Michael_Joly]

but basically what you're saying is that the RSM-5 and RSM-4 as they are currently shipping are pretty much the same?

yeah, the current "cardboard box" RSM5 has the same basic motor design as the RSM4. The original "wooden box / shockmount equipped" RSM5 had the Royer-like ribbon offset.

I received 2 of them in boxes, Im 99% sure the ribbon is offset. I'll check again when I get home tonight.

Interesting. Of course I haven't seen every cardboard-boxed RSM5 shipped, so ribbon placement in the gap should be evaluated individually by each user. That offset ribbon HF boost was a nice feature, too bad it infringed Royer's patent

[jv]

but basically what you're saying is that the RSM-5 and RSM-4 as they are currently shipping are pretty much the same?

yeah, the current "cardboard box" RSM5 has the same basic motor design as the RSM4. The original "wooden box / shockmount equipped" RSM5 had the Royer-like ribbon offset.

I received 2 of them in boxes, Im 99% sure the ribbon is offset. I'll check again when I get home tonight.

Interesting. Of course I haven't seen every cardboard-boxed RSM5 shipped, so ribbon placement in the gap should be evaluated individually by each user. That offset ribbon HF boost was a nice feature, too bad it infringed Royer's patent

Michael,
Is there some way to tell if it has the offset ribbon (by opening it up, I would assume)? I got a cardboard box version a couple of months ago when MF had them for $69. I did open it up to verify that the ribbon was not sagging. I think it sounds great stock, btw. More natural and without the resonances of the TOMB ribbons I have.

[KilledByAlbany]

It's usually pretty evident when you open up the body and look at the motor if it is offset or not. With the pair of offset N-Sonics I got, you could see it was offset just from looking at it from both sides, even without taking anything apart, just looking through the mesh. I'm pretty sure they use essentially (possibly exactly) the same motor as the Nady royer copies, though the Nadys probably use a ton of extra metal mesh and silk that might obscure the ribbon, if my RSM-1 is any indication. (I could barely see light pass through the grille of that thing before cutting out all the excess material.)

[Michael_Joly]

As KilledbyAlbany suggests, visual inspection without disassembly is one way. This picture on my site will show you what to look for (scroll down):
http://www.oktavamodshop.com/product_in ... cts_id=105

The pic is not perfect because it was intended to show ribbon sag, but if you look at the ends of the ribbon near the clamps you'll see the ribbon in this early RSM5 is only about 1mm from the surface of the magnet. Looking at the other side of the mic, the ribbon face is inset about 3+mm away from the surface of the magnet - an offset ribbon in other words.

If you can't get a good look at the ribbon through all the grilles use a sound check - make a recording (don't listen in headphones) of a high frequency-rich source. Recorde this source (white noise through a speaker is best) with both sides of the mic. If the ribbon is offset in the gap, one side (the side where the ribbon is "deeper" into the gap) will be brighter than the other side.

[RodC]

but basically what you're saying is that the RSM-5 and RSM-4 as they are currently shipping are pretty much the same?

yeah, the current "cardboard box" RSM5 has the same basic motor design as the RSM4. The original "wooden box / shockmount equipped" RSM5 had the Royer-like ribbon offset.

I received 2 of them in boxes, Im 99% sure the ribbon is offset. I'll check again when I get home tonight.

Interesting. Of course I haven't seen every cardboard-boxed RSM5 shipped, so ribbon placement in the gap should be evaluated individually by each user. That offset ribbon HF boost was a nice feature, too bad it infringed Royer's patent

I just looked at the RSM5s that I received in cardboard boxes. Michael_Joly is correct, the ribbon is not offset.

[Michael_Joly]

RodC, you are a gentleman and a scholar.

[RodC]

RodC, you are a gentleman and a scholar.

Thanks, same to you!

Sorry it took me so long to confirm this, I have been on the road for the past week and a half.

I'm thinking about gettin another ribbon soon, maybe a longer one. I have read that the Highs can be a bit better on the longer ones.

[Michael_Joly]

Right, the on-axis high frequency response is more extended in the longer ribbon Chinese mics (Apex 205, Cascade Vin-Jet etc) because of a difference in motor construction compared to the "short ribbon" Chinese mics (RSM4, Fat Head etc) - and is not due to ribbon length per se. The front-to-back acoustic path length in these "long ribbon" mics is shorter due to a combination of yoke design and size of magnets. Shorter front-to-back path length = higher cut off frequency due to cancellation of sound reaching both faces of the ribbon.

However, there is a direct correlation between ribbon length and vertical, off-axis high end response. For sounds that are off-axis in the vertical plane, a longer ribbon rolls off at a lower frequency than a shorter ribbon.

Each of these motor designs have their own advantages and produce complimentary results. The short motor design produces a classic "soft top" ribbon mic vocal sound and is idea for taming top end harshness in guitar cab applications. The long motor design, with its extended top end, offers a more "modern" vocal sound with a spectral response in the high end that resembles a flat response condenser mic (but with the ribbon mic advantage of low distortion and accurate transient response).