Cheapo ribbon mic upgrades

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

User avatar
audioboffin
pluggin' in mics
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:52 pm

Cheapo ribbon mic upgrades

Post by audioboffin » Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:24 pm

How much of an audible difference did swapping out the stock transformer to a Lundahl/Jensen/Cinemag make? What other mods have you made to your "yum cha" Alctron, Nady, Apex etc budget ribbon microphone or do you prefer the stout stock construction?

How many users have gone as far as changing the ribbon?
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.

- Hunter S. Thompson

kayagum
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3490
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:11 pm
Location: Saint Paul, MN

Post by kayagum » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:19 am

I was very happy with the Joly mod on my ML52. It cleared up the gauzy sound, better balance across the frequency spectrum.

(The mod included a Lundahl transformer upgrade, plus all the usual stuff like getting rid of the inner screen)

Nate Dort
tinnitus
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:07 pm
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Post by Nate Dort » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:37 pm

I pulled off all the screening on my Shinybox ribbon a few months ago. Last week, I put the two honeycomb wafer screens back on, and it made a world of difference. The highs aren't rolled off nearly as much anymore. I would only remove the inner basket and silk.

User avatar
micyourbrain
takin' a dinner break
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:58 pm
Contact:

Post by micyourbrain » Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:17 pm

HUGE improvement for my apex 205. Stock it was very stuffy and the high end was very unnatural. The biggest improvement can be done by merely removing all that crap around the ribbon, but the lundahl does add something nice too

I love this mic - it is such a great room mic and has a similar sound to my Oktavamod PE MK-319 but not quite as great on amps: full, natural and very flattering with just a bit of high end rolloff. I was using a jaguar with a fender hot rod deluxe with the 319 and modded 205 both about 3 feet away and the ribbon supplied a very pleasing bass that could be added in mixing if needed (although the PE MK319 is really incredible and doesn't need much of anything). It sounds excellent on on bass cabinets and kick drum too. I like to use it for a room mic for singing/acoustic with an AT4033 13" or so inches away. It takes EQ well and you can put it almost anywhere in the room and it will add fullness - muting and unmuting it sounds exactly like what I would imagine a "huge button" might sound like.

I got my 205 from fullcompass for $81. The Lundahl LL2913 is like $60 plus the extra PCB ($3? and worth it) from K and K audio. I wrapped it up in foam and stuck it in there. I took out everything around the ribbon except the very outer layer of mesh. This is pretty much the joly mod. What can I say, I'm a huge fan! This was my first mic mod and it was so easy and satisfying and it made a huge improvement! I recommend this mic and the mod to everyone who likes beautiful natural sound and huge round vintage sounding bass frequencies

User avatar
TheStevens
pushin' record
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:19 pm
Location: Chicago

Post by TheStevens » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:47 am

micyourbrain wrote: I got my 205 from fullcompass for $81. The Lundahl LL2913 is like $60 plus the extra PCB ($3? and worth it) from K and K audio. I wrapped it up in foam and stuck it in there. I took out everything around the ribbon except the very outer layer of mesh. This is pretty much the joly mod. What can I say, I'm a huge fan! This was my first mic mod and it was so easy and satisfying and it made a huge improvement! I recommend this mic and the mod to everyone who likes beautiful natural sound and huge round vintage sounding bass frequencies
did swapping the tranny help with the noise at all? i find my 205 to be kinda noisy sometimes.

User avatar
bantam
suffering 'studio suck'
Posts: 480
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:55 pm
Location: boston MA
Contact:

Post by bantam » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:35 am

iterested in your shinny box mod? what are wafer screens? are they already in there?

User avatar
micyourbrain
takin' a dinner break
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:58 pm
Contact:

Post by micyourbrain » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:14 pm

steve3b1 wrote:
did swapping the tranny help with the noise at all? i find my 205 to be kinda noisy sometimes.
I don't know. I got the mic in the mail, put it on snare and guitar cab and went hmmmm. The sound was very uptight, restricted and nasally (sorry I can't think of better words). So I did the mod right away and there was a big improvement.

The biggest improvement is taking out just the mesh and all that stuff around the ribbon. You can wait on the lundahl until funds are available.

The mic is noisy is used as a room mic 4-8 ft. away for quiet acoustic stuff but I would probably attribute that to preamp noise. still sounds good and "takes EQ well" as they say

Nate Dort
tinnitus
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:07 pm
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Post by Nate Dort » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:38 pm

bantam wrote:iterested in your shinny box mod? what are wafer screens? are they already in there?
I just found this:

http://www.hometracked.com/2007/08/17/r ... -apex-205/

I basically omitted step 2, as I felt like taking out those wafer honeycomb screens hurt the high-end response.

BTW, my shinybox ribbon is one of the original first-run 23s, which is generally the same as the apex 205 and other mics with the same body shape. Shinybox doesn't sell them anymore. Mine had an extra rectangular wire basket with silk lining around the ribbon that isn't shown in that apex mod tutorial.

User avatar
digitaldrummer
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3476
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Post by digitaldrummer » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:39 pm

btw,

this guy has some Nsonic NS1's for sale

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Ribbon-Micropho ... dZViewItem

I believe these do have the offset ribbon ala Royer 121 - mine did. Mine also had a very saggy ribbon though and needed help. Now it sounds great. I really like it on guitar cabs and as a drum room mic and I haven't even removed the inner mesh or replaced trannys yet. some of my surgical pics here:

http://www.digitaldrummer.net/ribbon/
Mike
www.studiodrumtracks.com -- Drum tracks starting at $50!
www.doubledogrecording.com

User avatar
micyourbrain
takin' a dinner break
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:58 pm
Contact:

Post by micyourbrain » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:45 pm

man the NS-1s used to be $59! I shoulda jumped on that.

besides that, to everyone looking for a good deal on chinese ribbons, the best deal I have found is a pair of Nady RSM-4s (fathead style) for $138 shipped from guitarcenter.com! One is $69, but orders over 100 get free shipping. I believe this is the cheapest you can get the fathead style ribbon mics for, which may be even cheaper than some of the group buys

willowhaus
takin' a dinner break
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:04 pm

Post by willowhaus » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:35 am

Just got my Apex 210 back from Michael Joly - I borked the ribbon while attempting to remove stuff from the inside (hold your breath if you're working on a ribbon! :oops: ) so I sprung for the premium upgrade, including the Lundahl transformer.

All I can say is - wow! I just tested it here at work (A/B with an RE20) and it's amazing! Great top-end clarity that the original lacked, and a lovely warmth on my (not-so-lovely) voice. I'm REALLY looking forward to testing this on my acoustic guitar!

When I first got the mic, I tested it side-by-side with my Rode NT2 in front of the guitar. The pair of them blended beautifully, with the Rode making up for the lack of clarity & the 210 giving a nice "woody" quality to the sound.

But - the way this thing sounds now, it may not be necessary to use the LDC. :)

User avatar
Mudcloth
steve albini likes it
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:30 pm
Location: Elgin, Texas
Contact:

Post by Mudcloth » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:52 pm

I just got my n-sonic ns1 a couple of days ago and I finally got around to re-tensioning the ribbon today as it was pretty saggy. Thanks to Michael Joly for posting instructions about this here on tomb.
http://swan.he.net/~tapeop/viewtopic.ph ... 1&start=15
I would have farked it up, especially if he hadn't mentioned using rubbing alcohol to seperate the ribbon from the clamp.
The first thing I noticed when I used it on my J-45 was how much low end it picks up. I had to aim it at sixth fret just to get away from the boominess of this guitar. I liked it okay on my vocals, but it wasn't earth shattering.
Both tracks were recorded through my Hamptone Jfet pre. All this was done on the fly so take it with a grain of salt. Also, it's my first ribbon mic so what the hell do I know?
Also, it seemed a bit noisy. I haven't tried it with electric guitar or m/s either.
Once I get around to purchasing a Lundahl tranny I'll do a before and after recording and post it.
Matt Giles
Austin, Tx


http://www.mattguitargiles.com
http://www.myspace.com/mattguitargiles
http://www.thedrakesband.com/

How much is a stamp? I'll buy the goddamn stamp.

User avatar
digitaldrummer
ghost haunting audio students
Posts: 3476
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

Post by digitaldrummer » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:59 pm

have you tried using the backside of the NS1 yet? I actually liked it better on the guitar cab as it was a brighter than the front. As Michael Joly also posted here, these have the offset ribbon, but is reversed from the Royer they copied, so the back of the NS1 is actually a bit brighter sounding. haven't tried it on vocals yet myself, but I would think it would probably be best on the back side too.

Mike
Mike
www.studiodrumtracks.com -- Drum tracks starting at $50!
www.doubledogrecording.com

User avatar
Mudcloth
steve albini likes it
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:30 pm
Location: Elgin, Texas
Contact:

Post by Mudcloth » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:51 am

I did use the backside of the mic for the quick test. I had read about the reverse Royer patent infrigement here on tomb through Michael Joly's posts. I listened back last night and I do think this mic has some good potential. I might buy another down the road if I like the difference the Lundahl makes. I'm just happy I finally have a ribbon in my locker.
Matt Giles
Austin, Tx


http://www.mattguitargiles.com
http://www.myspace.com/mattguitargiles
http://www.thedrakesband.com/

How much is a stamp? I'll buy the goddamn stamp.

User avatar
xpulsar
pushin' record
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 7:55 pm
Location: Nashville , TN
Contact:

Cheap Ribbons

Post by xpulsar » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:08 am

I sent one of my Fat Head 2's to Steven Sank of Talking Dog Transducer. He changed out the Ribbon with an RCA ribbon and swapped the tranny with a Cinemag that I bought for $50 and had sent to him from Cinemag. WOW! This mic now sounds like an RCA,No Shit! It has that sweet ribbon sound. I would compare it to a 77DX sonically now. Worth every penny of the $125.00 he charged me to change out the ribbon.

-Collin

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 47 guests