$400 for microphone on AC30 and "other"

[micyourbrain]

Hey guys I know you must get sick of posts like this, but I'd really appreciate your help

I've done a bunch of research, and I want a mic that would be a good up close mic for my Vox AC-30 top boost with weber blue dogs (alnico blues) and fender guitars. It would also be great, since I'm blowing all my spare change, to have it be useful for several other things.

I am looking at these models
Shure SM7b (I know everyone loves these)
Sennheiser e906 & Cascade Fat Head or RSM-5 (the royer copy) fully modded
Beyer m160 (slightly out of my range but possibly doable)

My goal for the AC30 is to cut out some of those boxy mids and the SM57 isn't really doing it right (although I love it on fender amps). I'll be using it with Oktavamod PE MK-319 or AT4033 as a room mic. The SM7b would be a great choice overall but I'm afraid it will do a similar thing as the SM57 which is not cut the mids in the right place

My second goal is to diversify/improve my mic collection with another flavor of mic that I can use on at least one other thing besides my guitar amp. Here's what I got

Beta 52
SM57s
Oktava MK-012s
Oktavamod MK-319
AT4033
Apex 205 (full mod)
DIY subkick
walkie talkie mic

Thanks so much for your help everyone!

[tonewoods]

"My goal for the AC30 is to cut out some of those boxy mids and the SM57 isn't really doing it right (although I love it on fender amps)."

Try putting the 57 right up against that wood slat that runs in front of the AC30 speaker...
Works like a charm...

[micyourbrain]

woah
you mean like between the speakers or that part above the speakers with the vox logo? crazy. can't say I've tried that

[sears]

Have you tried the 4033 close and a dynamic on the room? I use a 4040 on my AC-15 with a 441 in the room. The 441 on the AC-15 is also pretty good.

[micyourbrain]

i forgot about the 441. there's an everything mic in my price range

[RodC]

+1 on the 441, with guitar its like a condensor minus the over sensitivity, and can take the SPLs of being on the grill. The roll switch makes it nice to dial in the roll off you want.

[cgarges]

Nine times out of ten, my AC30 gets some kind of dark ribbon mic. Something like a Royer 121, Oktava ML52-02, or RCA 77DX. I've also had good luck with the RCA BK-5A, Beyer M160, Meyer M500, and Sennheiser MD409 if I need to accentuate the top end a bit while retaining smoother frequency response from the mics. Most times, it's one of each or a combination of one of those with an ambient mic of some sort.

I think you'd probably do well with any of the mics on your list, although the Beyer 160 would be the most versatile mic that's different from what you've already got.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[micyourbrain]

thanks for all your posts guys. some of my favorite posters showed up!

cgarges I definitely agree about the BK-5A. That thing sound incredible on the AC-30! When our band went to tiny telephone in SF, that's what was used on my amp along with a M88 (i think) in the back and it was rad. Ripping.

409s are sweet too but I can't justify the 400+ on a basic dynamic mic for a guitar when there are e609s and e906s out there for way less than half.

Everything i hear about the royer makes it sound like a dream come true but of course, it's out of my price range. I was thinking the old version of the RSM-5 with the offset ribbon and a lundahl transformer might be a pretty awesome wanna-be royer mic.

I guess it comes down to 441 or m160. I'd be pretty excited about either one from my experiences with them.

[cgarges]

cgarges I definitely agree about the BK-5A. That thing sound incredible on the AC-30! When our band went to tiny telephone in SF, that's what was used on my amp along with a M88 (i think) in the back and it was rad. Ripping.

Yep. It's one of my favorite mics in general. I have a sort of bizarrely-modified one that came from the CBC. The yolk mount arms on the side have been completely removed and the mic was re-painted (according to Clarence Kane), but I can't find any evidence at all that this mic wasn't manufactured like this. None visible AT ALL. It came with that awful RCA shockmount ring/collar thing, which I replaced with a typical Chinese shockmount that works great. Mine also had the cable replaced with a side-mounted XLR connector. Clarence also told me that these can be really problematic, but that mine was excellently-done. Gotta love those Canadians!

The M88 is another crazy-useful mic and I'm sure that at some point, I've paired it with a handful of things on my AC30. I can't believe I forgot to mention that one.

409s are sweet too but I can't justify the 400+ on a basic dynamic mic for a guitar when there are e609s and e906s out there for way less than half.

I have regular access to a 409 and an e609 (silver) and the 609 is not at all like the 409. It's a sort of a cool mic, but the 409 is a really different thing. I have heard side-by-side audio samples of the 409, 609, 609S, and the 906. In these particular samples, the 906 sounded closest to the 409. Not exactly the same, but pretty close. I've been trying to get my hands on one to compare in person, but haven't been able to yet.

Everything i hear about the royer makes it sound like a dream come true but of course, it's out of my price range.

The Royer is a cool mic and can be really versatile, but I have actually done side-by-side comparisons with a 121 and the Oktava ML-52-02 and there was only the tiniest perceivable difference. And this was literally side-by-side. I'm pretty certain that had I left the room, had someone switch up the auditioning, and then come back in, I wouldn't have been able to tell which was which. Now, in general, the 121 is a more versatile mic (and the SF12 is REALLY versatile mic), but on most guitar amps, the Oktava really does sound the same. At least my Oktavas do.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Max]

Last week I've tried a couple of different mics (M88, SM7, M160, AT4033, 441) on a AC30. None of them sounded bad but the guitarist was really picky and I ended up using a Beyer M260 that was modified by Steve Sank. The 441 sounded pretty good as well.

[micyourbrain]

The tricky thing about the AC30 is that you can adjust the mids by turning the bass and treble knobs to cut some of the mids, and turn them both down to boost it. BUT there is still lots of higher mids no matter what, especially because of the alnicos. Some guitarists who own the amp are deceived by what seems like simplicity in the tone controls and the interaction between the guitar settings

I guess the consensus is a ribbon mic would be best for this source, with a 441 also being a good choice and useful on tons of other stuff

[mertmo]

One night while recording my band's album we decided to try almost every mic in
the studio on the AC30 to see what we liked. We recorded one pass with every mic
and listened to the difference in context of some recorded bass and drums. The list was:

shure 57
shure 58
EV 357 (2 different varieties)
414 Buls
414 TL II
Beyer dynamic (don't know the model #)
421
U87
TLM 103
Audix D2
Audix D4
D112
Beta 52

The Beta 52 DESTROYED every other choice, it wasn't even close. D112 in second
place...

Now, all this is ridiculously subjective of course. (maybe I like the midrange that
you don't...) But I'm just sayin... you might already own the best mic for your
amp.

[RodC]

Everything i hear about the royer makes it sound like a dream come true but of course, it's out of my price range. I was thinking the old version of the RSM-5 with the offset ribbon and a lundahl transformer might be a pretty awesome wanna-be royer mic.

I hear ya, I really like ribbons on this type of amp, I didnt know you were considering them. I have an RSM 5 and and RSM 3 The 5s I have do not have the offset ribbon, but it blows the RSM 3 out of the water hands down. The RSM 5 makes these smaller amps sound huge. I wish I could afford a royer as well!

Now, Im going to say something that r0t4ry will prob get mad at me for, he had a ribbon that looked Exactly like a royer, I bought it, it sounds awsome. It blows away all my Nady ribbon mics. I setup Two RSM 5 mics, one with the mesh removed, one without, 1 RSM 3 and this no name mic. Used the same preamp for all 3 and recorded the same guitar cab at the same time.

1 The no name mic, mesh removed (had way more highs, lot clearer)
2 The RSM 5 without the mesh, I retensioned it (More highs)
3 The RSM 5 with the mesh, did not need retensioned
4 The RSM 3 came in way last (in both directions) (Just didnt have the detail)

For all I know these mics may have been made in the same factory, or I just happened to get a good one???

I wanted to buy another one but he says they were just some trial versions he got and that he is going to be getting some better models. Im waiting....

[tonewoods]

"you mean like between the speakers or that part above the speakers with the vox logo?"

On old (and I think new) AC30s, there's a 2" wide strip of wood right in front of the speaker....
Try mic'ing that....

[RodC]

tonewoods:
Shouldn't the fender be holdin up the VOX? I mean if the water gets in that gives you about 6-8 inches...

Just kiddin before any of you Fender freaks chime in.....

I just recorded a Fender Vibro Champ, an original, not the reissue.
EDIT, it was a Vibro Champ, NOT a JR, My head is not in the game today..

I used the Nady RSM5 + (EF86/Triad stage of my Akai preamp) on the front and my Cad GXL300 (Fig 8 pattern) + JBL 5600 on the open rear. It sounded awsome, the cab sounded huge.