Are these "hip-hop" fellas sidechaining?

[I'm Painting Again]

I know one of the old tricks was to "key" via sidechaining a low synth tone over and with the duration of the kick hit to get a really crazy awesome kick sound..

I think they higpassed a mult of the kick drum and sent it to the sidechain input and had that work the comp with the low synth to the inputs of the comp then mixed it back in to the song..something like that..

this link shows a DAW based version with a gate to give you an idea of what I'm thinking:

http://www.dandont.com/invision/index.p ... topic=3050

actually it was a mult of the kick to the key/sidechin in on a gate..the gate opens and closes letting in the synth and creates the pumping awesome lows with the kick..

[dynomike]

A brickwall 'peak shaping' limiter like the L2 won't really do this for you, despite what other posters have said.

If you're turning the kick up and using a buss compressor on the whole track (or just the instrumental anyway), it sounds like you'd have to have a moderate attack (5-20ms?) and set the release so it suits the tempo of the song to get a good pump. You'd want a really smooth and slow compressor for this. In plugin land, Waves RComp, Kjaerhaus (spelling?) stuff will all you give you enough controls to try this out.

Even better would be, as described above, a mult of the kick keying the sidechain input on a track that has everything you want to pump (bass, synth, etc). This is harder to do with plugins... I believe waves RChannel can do it, and so can the built in effects in Sonar. I really like the effect, but it is becoming a bit of a cliche, so use in moderation.

-Mike

[drumsound]

Use a hard knee comp and turn up the BD. Adjust the Threshold and time constraints to work with the tempo.

[joelkriske]

I think the way Madlib & J Dilla are doing it is probably similar to the way Daft Punk have been doing it for a while on their particular french house sound (which Justice and others have 'inherited') Using the kick drum as the key on the bassline to effectively 'duck' the b-line under the kick and create that 'pumping' sort of sound - whether it's officially side-chaining, or just flat out brick wall limiting is anybody's guess nowadays in commercial dance (OMG AUDIO WARZ!!!11) but I'm pretty sure Daft Punk were sidechaining when they started it all. It's become a bit of an overused effect in dance music, but sounds cool when you hear it elsewhere, which is why I don't mind hearing it in that leftfield instrumental hip hop context ...

+1 Dr. Rubberfunk

[TapeOpAl]

I know the sound you mean, what I'm thinking though is that Madlib's musical approach (from interviews I've read) seems to be more about getting it done. A sidechain just seems too scientific for his style (imho) I'd have to dig through some records and listen but I think it is more about a loud kick and a heavily compressed mix that's just causing the kick to jump out, rather than pulling down the rest of the track at the time the kick hits.

J Dillas studio was/is a bit more conventional than Madlib's setup so he could well be sidechaining, what I've heard (not really a fan) sounds a lot cleaner than Madlib's sound.

[audioboffin]

The sidechain route would have more control than this method, so that would be the main consideration for doing it that way...

Actually the kick drum fader can offer quite a lot of control when slamming a 2 track compressor/limiter... give it a listen!

[bniesz]

i agree with drumsound.
i think that sound is a result of over-compressing the mix or loop as a whole, causing the compressor to pull back more when the high-energy kick hits.
my assumption has always been that it's careless or accidental in origins, but slowing making it's way intentionally into the mixing process.

[sears]

my assumption has always been that it's careless or accidental in origins, but slowing making it's way intentionally into the.. process.

Sounds like art!