multiple mics on ringo

[watergunfight]

This has probably been brought up already (I can never efficiently search for what I am looking for on here), but at about 18 seconds in to the video for Lady Madonna (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vf26cRtG_w), which was actually filmed when they were recording Hey Bulldog, I see at least 4 mics on ringos kit. Just wondering what these mics might have been, and if anyone knows if they were set up like this on other sessions as well. I have Here, There, and Everywhere by Emmerick and he doesn't mention anything about all these drum mics (at least not yet), do any of the other beatles books go into length about mic selection and positioning?

[A.David.MacKinnon]

The Recording The Beatles book has some great info on all the gear as well as mic placement diagrams. I read a bunch of it at a mastering studio a while back. Very cool book.
Now I'm speculating and trying to remember what was said in the book (so take this with a grain of salt) but ...............
from the look of the video there a 4 AKG d19s over the kit (floor, middle, snare and hats). There was usually a AKG D12 on kick although they also used ribbons (it doesn't look like a d12 in this clip but I can't see it too well) and often a condensor under the snare. Drums and everything else were tracked mono. EMI had several 4 channel passive mic mixers that were used to feed multiple mics into a single pre/tape channel. I believe if they used more than 4 mics on a source they would just plug the out of one passive mixer into the input of another.

[fossiltooth]

This video wasn't actually edited together in 1968, was it?

It just has waaay too many quick cuts for it to seem like an authentic production from that era... Or were they just "ahead of their time"?

I mean, the sheer volume of quick cuts puts MTV and Boston Legal to shame.

What is this, a school project or something?

[A.David.MacKinnon]

This video wasn't actually put together in the era this footage is from, was it?

Nope. It's footage from Hey Bulldog that someone has recut.
The real deal is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGrEZH7j1bQ

"A few years back Apple Corps discovered that film footage of the Beatles, that was used for a promo film for "Lady Madonna", was in fact footage of the Beatles recording "Hey Bulldog".

It was shown on ABC's 20/20, but with Elizabeth Vargus talking over the entire piece!!! But thanks to the magic of non-linear editing I was able to place a recording of "Hey Bulldog" over the 20/20 piece. "

[cgarges]

usually a AKG D12 on kick

If memory serves correctly, it was usually a D20 on the kick (or and STC 4033). Looks like a D20 (which looks like a D12) later on in the video in one of those "up from in front of the bass drum" shots.

That's great footage of Studio Three in that video. You don't see too many photos or video of Studio Three from back then.

I'll consult the Kehew/Ryan book.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[fossiltooth]

Nope. It's footage from Hey Bulldog that someone has recut.
The real deal is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGrEZH7j1bQ

"A few years back Apple Corps discovered that film footage of the Beatles, that was used for a promo film for "Lady Madonna", was in fact footage of the Beatles recording "Hey Bulldog".

It was shown on ABC's 20/20, but with Elizabeth Vargus talking over the entire piece!!! But thanks to the magic of non-linear editing I was able to place a recording of "Hey Bulldog" over the 20/20 piece. "

Hmmm...

Apparently that link isn't the "real deal" either. It's just another modern interpretation of this footage. It just happens to be synced up to the right song.

Music videos didn't look like that in 1968. I'm no video editor, and even I can tell.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

usually a AKG D12 on kick

If memory serves correctly, it was usually a D20 on the kick (or and STC 4033). Looks like a D20 (which looks like a D12) later on in the video in one of those "up from in front of the bass drum" shots.

That's great footage of Studio Three in that video. You don't see too many photos or video of Studio Three from back then.

I'll consult the Kehew/Ryan book.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

I satnd corrected. Thanks Chris

Apparently the link you provided isn't the "real deal" either. It's just another modern interpretation of this footage. It just happens to be synced up to the right song.

Music videos didn't look like that in 1968. I'm no video editor, and even I can tell.

Who knows. That's one of the frustrating things about Youtube. Anyone can have a go at recutting footage.

[cgarges]

Just checked Recording The Beatles.

Yeah, it would have been a D20 on the bass drum. It was pretty much always a D20 after Norman Smith left, with the occasional exception or addition of a Sony C38A a little later. It's also likely that there are actually four D19s in use on the drums, the fourth one sort of below and in front of the rack tom. There would also have been a Neumann KM56 (side address) below the snare drum. There's a good photo in the book of Ringo at the kit with this setup in February of '68, which is exactly when "Lady Madonna" was recorded. Ken Scott was the engineer. There are two tracks of drums, one played with and recorded on the initial piano track (the brush part), and one overdubbed (sticks).

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[phantom power]

Notice Paul behind the kit about 12 seconds in to the video that Watergunfight posted?

-AE

[mjau]

[quote="cgargesI'll consult the Kehew/Ryan book.
[/quote]
Yup, D20.

[watergunfight]

Just checked Recording The Beatles.

Yeah, it would have been a D20 on the bass drum. It was pretty much always a D20 after Norman Smith left, with the occasional exception or addition of a Sony C38A a little later. It's also likely that there are actually four D19s in use, the fourth one sort of below and in front of the rack tom. There would also have been a Neumann KM56 (side address) below the snare drum. There's a good photo in the book of Ringo at the kit with this setup in February of '68, which is exactly when "Lady Madonna" was recorded. Ken Townsend was the engineer. There are two tracks of drums, one played with and recorded on the initial piano track (the brush part), and one overdubbed and played with and recorded on the guitar and bass track (sticks).

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

Awesome, thanks Chris. you wouldn't happen to have a scanner would you?

[cgarges]

Awesome, thanks Chris. you wouldn't happen to have a scanner would you?

I do, but since Kevin and Brian post here, I don't know how cool it would be for me to scan that photo from the book I spent hard-earned money on and they spent hard-earned money and effort (like 11 years' worth) getting releases to use the photos. If you really want to see it, I recommend buying the book, because the book is freaking awesome. I'm actually thinking of buying a second one to keep at the studio where it can get a bit more trashed-up than my home copy.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[watergunfight]

Understood. I'll definitely try to check out the book. Please indulge me so I have some motivation to buy: how many pictures like that are there and how specific does it get with mic placement? I mean is it like, Lady Madonna take one: D19 4 feet up 2 inches from XX? Cause I'll run out and buy the damn thing now..

[cgarges]

There are LOTS of pictures. Pictures taken by people who have never previously released them. It's not like any other book that has a ton of stuff you've already seen. The pictures in the gear section are pretty incredible, just by nature of what's there.

You can't reasonably expect anyone to have documented mic distances from the sources for every single one of hundreds of sessions that occurred 40-plus years ago, but I can guarantee you that there won't ever be another book this thorough on this subject again.

There are sections on the people, the layout of the studios (Abbey Road and the other studios in which they worked), the specific pieces of equipment (pages on each microphone, tape machine, console, speaker, and outboard device), and production (including band setup, editing techniques, and track-sheet-like diagrams for each take and reduction/bounce). While it doesn't document production for every song in absolute depth (but almost), it does give you insight that you will never find anywhere else. There are obviously lots of photos from the sessions, but there are also diagrams or photos of drumkits with microphones added that describe the way the band would be set up in the various rooms at certain times in their career. Obviously, the Norman Smith stuff is a little more predictable, because he was a more predictable engineer and there's more variation in the later stuff. It does pretty much go year-by-year, though, and there is amazing information available.

For instance, here's how the track layout went down on "Lady Madonna:"

Ken Scott recorded the basic track, the keeper of which was take three, with Paul playing piano (one D19 in mono) and Ringo playing drums with brushes. This all went to track one of the four-track machine. Ringo then overdubbed the second drumkit (with sticks) to track three. Paul then overdubbed bass, while John and George doubled each other on guitars, both playing through the same a amp, all of which went to track two. Paul then recorded the lead vocal onto track four.

The next day, Geoff Emerick bounced tracks three (second drumkit) and two (all the guitars and bass) to track two of another machine. John, Paul, and George recorded handclaps and "brass band" vocals, while Ringo played tambourine, all recorded onto track three. Then, they doubled all that same stuff by punching into the gaps in the lead vocal track (track four) when Paul wasn't singing. The original drum and piano track was flown to track one again.

All of this was flown to another tape machine, with tracks three and four bounced to a new track four. Saxophones were added onto the new track three.

There's a great littele diagram showing how all this went down in much better detail than I can explain it here (and there are similar diagrams for most of the Beatles' material). There's some other interesting drama that went down, but I'll save that for you to read in the book.

If I remember correctly, there are lots of examples of the type of stuff in the book on their website.
www.recordingthebeatles.com

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[trask]

just wanted to toss in my 2 cents, which is BUY THE BOOK.

It's amazing and worth every penny (even though I received it as an x-mas gift. BEST present ever).

Besides being pretty much a complete fucking bible on Abbey Road and the Beatles, it just gave me such a huge appreciation for recording technology and how far we've come. It's so astonishing to me really, and further proves that you don't really need shit to make good recordings. These guys were coming up with and innovating stuff that you and I take for granted every day.


Simply amazing.