Worldwide music sales down again

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Re: Worldwide music sales down again

Post by Cellotron » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:26 pm

dwlb wrote:Okay:
@?,*ƒƒƒ&™ wrote: less and less people are releasing 'legitimate, mastered and pressed' releases.
Have you got any data to support this statement?
It seems to me that there is in fact a trend towards more numbers of releases but less average numbers sold per each release.

Anyway - data regarding the major label's sales and those indies that are tracked by Soundscan up to 2006 can be read at http://www.riaa.com/keystatistics.php?content_selector=

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Re: Worldwide music sales down again

Post by @?,*???&? » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:36 am

Cellotron wrote:
dwlb wrote:Okay:
@?,*???&? wrote: less and less people are releasing 'legitimate, mastered and pressed' releases.
Have you got any data to support this statement?
It seems to me that there is in fact a trend towards more numbers of releases but less average numbers sold per each release.
Yes, look for a book called 'The Long Tail'.

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Re: Worldwide music sales down again

Post by ;ivlunsdystf » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:37 am

@?,*???&? wrote:
Cellotron wrote:
dwlb wrote:Okay:
@?,*???&? wrote: less and less people are releasing 'legitimate, mastered and pressed' releases.
Have you got any data to support this statement?
It seems to me that there is in fact a trend towards more numbers of releases but less average numbers sold per each release.
Yes, look for a book called 'The Long Tail'.
Ironically, the 'Long Tail' book was quite the bestseller.

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Re: Worldwide music sales down again

Post by JGriffin » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:44 am

@?,*???&? wrote:
Cellotron wrote:
dwlb wrote:Okay:
@?,*???&? wrote: less and less people are releasing 'legitimate, mastered and pressed' releases.
Have you got any data to support this statement?
It seems to me that there is in fact a trend towards more numbers of releases but less average numbers sold per each release.
Yes, look for a book called 'The Long Tail'.
So wait, if there are MORE releases but fewer are being sold, then how does that mean LESS (let's say "fewer," it's more grammatically correct) people are releasing "legitimate, mastered, pressed" releases? This is inherently contradictory.
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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:11 am

That's the point of my main statement.

In '65 there were 208 albums released in 2006 there were 37,000+.

These numbers take in to account those tracked through traditional means.

What I have seen at this studio since it opened almost 3 years ago is that less and less legitimate product is being released- by that I mean mastered and manufactured with barcode and professionally packaged. Young bands simply don't have the money to do so.

I recently worked on a single that was a follow-up to a 'legitimate' release that came out. The idea was to do a two-song single. Problem is, non-commercial or commercial radio won't play it because it is not 'part of a legitimate release' that is available at retail. A two-time Grammy winner mastered it, the band just stopped short of properly manufacturing it and radio has already said they don't have room in their studios for a 'burned CD'. Thus, the death of exposure. The band may end up selling many copies of this to fans, but they've cut their own throat with this. Catering to the 'illegitimate' release will only harm them. Maybe it doesn't matter.

Worldwide sales are dropping because more and more people are downloading music that is not 'legitimate'.

The guy a few pages back that said he buys only 'independent' reggae music or whatever fails to see he is still buying records that are distributed and are 'legitimate' releases as they are available at retail. He is not buying unmastered and burned CDs. No one is, but people are downloading that stuff and trading it. It's just common. Legitimate releases, while there are more now than there ever have been, are still uncommon by comparison.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:15 am

argh.

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Post by JGriffin » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:34 am

Worldwide music sales are dropping for two reasons:
1) the immediate availablility of any/all music, whether released to Jeff's standards or not, for free on the internet obviates the need to spend money on it--from the point of view of the Entitlement Generation.
2) The major labels are releasing a lot of junk no one wants to buy. And by a lot of junk, I mean LOTS of junk. Upwards of 37,000 releases? Wow. How many of these can possibly be worth $15 - $18?

It seems to me that the major labels--the traditional "legitimate" release-mongers -- are on the opposite end of this "Long Tail" model: they're trying to be the "popular" release that sells less in the short term than the "unpopular" music that sells in the short term. Yet another example that the majors are clinging on to fading, antiquated business models. The band in your example might be better served finding some other (newer) promotional avenue besides the corrupt, stinky, payola-laden Radio route.

It isn't that people are downloading releases that aren't "legitimate," Jeff. It's that people are downloading everything.

But if your statement:
He is not buying unmastered and burned CDs. No one is, but people are downloading that stuff and trading it. It's just common. Legitimate releases, while there are more now than there ever have been, are still uncommon by comparison.
...is true, then that implies some qualitative difference between the legit releases no one is buying and the non-legit releases everyone is downloading and trading. Perhaps the non-legit stuff is just better.

Ultimately, perhaps we can conclude that simply throwing enough money at a band that they can record in a swanky 24-track analog room, mix on an SSL with retractable coke mirror, have the record mastered by a 2-time Grammy winner, press up a stack of CDs (with barcodes!) and then get airplay on commercial FM radio...doesn't neccesarily result in a good album that anyone wants to hear.
"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:48 am

no!

it cannot be!

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Post by JGriffin » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:58 am

It can!

It is!
"Jeweller, you've failed. Jeweller."

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Post by T-rex » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:59 am

Commercial radio, there's the problem right there. Seriously without paying big money who the heck can get played on commercial radio?

My first band did a two song single that we recorded at a local studio and burned to 200 CDR's. We sent one (with copied, cheaply done artwork signed by the band) to everyone on our mailing list for a christmas present. One song was a rocker and the other was an kind of anti war x-mas song. The local public radio station got a hold of it and have played it every year in fairly heavy rotation in December for the last 7 or 8 years since we put it out. Yes, it's public radio way left of the dial and although it is a really cool station, it's not KROQ or whatever. But that was a CD that we didn't solicit to radio, didn't have a UPC, didn't have ANYTHING even resembling "legitimate" and had no intentions of it being anything other than a gift ot the people who would come out to see our shows. Oh yeah, and it wasn't mastered obviously. But ironically, it turns up on the radio every year. I think that's pretty cool and it goes to show that the music is all that really matters anyway.
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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:14 am

dwlb wrote:2) The major labels are releasing a lot of junk no one wants to buy. And by a lot of junk, I mean LOTS of junk. Upwards of 37,000 releases? Wow. How many of these can possibly be worth $15 - $18?
This has become an almost idiomatic argument. It holds no water. A hollow wives tale.

Also, of those 37,000 releases almost 70% are independently produced outside of the major label system.

In other words, independent musicians produce crap on their own.

The place to place blame is the shameful predatory services like Discmakers and Oasis that sell the dream- if the independent musician even takes it that far...

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Post by @?,*???&? » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:18 am

T-rex wrote:Commercial radio, there's the problem right there. Seriously without paying big money who the heck can get played on commercial radio?

My first band did a two song single that we recorded at a local studio and burned to 200 CDR's. We sent one (with copied, cheaply done artwork signed by the band) to everyone on our mailing list for a christmas present. One song was a rocker and the other was an kind of anti war x-mas song. The local public radio station got a hold of it and have played it every year in fairly heavy rotation in December for the last 7 or 8 years since we put it out. Yes, it's public radio way left of the dial and although it is a really cool station, it's not KROQ or whatever. But that was a CD that we didn't solicit to radio, didn't have a UPC, didn't have ANYTHING even resembling "legitimate" and had no intentions of it being anything other than a gift ot the people who would come out to see our shows. Oh yeah, and it wasn't mastered obviously. But ironically, it turns up on the radio every year. I think that's pretty cool and it goes to show that the music is all that really matters anyway.
Here is a fine tale of success. I've talked to numerous music directors across the country that look down on burned discs of any kind. In no uncertain terms they've said, "we just don't have room in our control room for these kinds of discs". It's these stations that are making the argument for 'legitimate' product.

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Post by chris harris » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:36 am

@?,*???&? wrote:radio has already said they don't have room in their studios for a 'burned CD'. Thus, the death of exposure.
Who the fuck listens to radio?!?!? I'd LOVE to see the numbers for commercial radio over the last 15 years or so...
@?,*???&? wrote:The band may end up selling many copies of this to fans,
sweet!
@?,*???&? wrote:but they've cut their own throat with this.
jeez... thanks Debbie Downer.

how so?
@?,*???&? wrote:Catering to the 'illegitimate' release will only harm them. Maybe it doesn't matter.
it really doesn't. if they want a one in a zillion shot at stardom, or if they're one of those "will-do-ANYTHING" for a shot at being a part of the all talk & $$$ and no SUBSTANCE industry machine that you seem so eager to suck off, then yeah... missing out on radio might hurt them in the long run. But, probably not then even.
Assuming that they're not idiots, and they would be more interested in a much more likely shot at having a sustainable career, then their "illegitimate release" and their connection with a "legitimate" fanbase, is probably better for them than a couple of bought-and-paid-for spins on Clear Channel's latest KSUK affiliate.
@?,*???&? wrote:Worldwide sales are dropping because more and more people are downloading music that is not 'legitimate'.
lolz
@?,*???&? wrote:The guy a few pages back that said he buys only 'independent' reggae music or whatever fails to see he is still buying records that are distributed and are 'legitimate' releases as they are available at retail. He is not buying unmastered and burned CDs. No one is, but people are downloading that stuff and trading it. It's just common. Legitimate releases, while there are more now than there ever have been, are still uncommon by comparison.
When is the last time that you went to a show at a bar, club or smallish venue? Hell, when is the last time that you hung out with someone under 40 in a situation where you weren't trying to "show them the ropes" of life? I hereby grant you a visa to spend some time in the REAL WORLD... It's a fun and exciting place!!

The best thing in the world that you could do is open yourself up to the possibility that you could actually learn something new in this world, rather than just constantly seeking out statistics and essays and articles that reinforce the views that you already have.

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Post by chris harris » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:39 am

dwlb wrote:The band in your example might be better served finding some other (newer) promotional avenue besides the corrupt, stinky, payola-laden Radio route.
exactly.
dwlb wrote:It isn't that people are downloading releases that aren't "legitimate," Jeff. It's that people are downloading everything.
yep.
dwlb wrote:Perhaps the non-legit stuff is just better.
this is the part that our pal Jeff will never grasp.
dwlb wrote:Ultimately, perhaps we can conclude that simply throwing enough money at a band that they can record in a swanky 24-track analog room, mix on an SSL with retractable coke mirror, have the record mastered by a 2-time Grammy winner, press up a stack of CDs (with barcodes!) and then get airplay on commercial FM radio...doesn't neccesarily result in a good album that anyone wants to hear.
great post!
Last edited by chris harris on Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:39 am

sooooo....just so i have this clear....places like discmakers offering cd replication services for entirely reasonable prices are "shameful and predatory" but the act of charging people $35 to listen to their demos is not?

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