the Absolute reason NOT to master yourself

@?,*???&? · Post by **@?,*???&?** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:10 pm

Anyone heard of DDP Fileset?

Looks like it provides an errorless delivery of material on disc.

No kid in his basement with mastering software is going to be able to do that.

Guaranteed.

AstroDan · Post by **AstroDan** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:53 pm

Okay, I'll stop.

Jeez, Louise.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:19 pm

you are really on fire today.

yes, believe it or not we've heard of DDP. if i felt like spending the money i could get it for wavelab, and i'm pretty sure i could figure out what to do without too much difficulty.

if you'd like we could have a discussion about REAL reasons not to master your own records. like mastering in the same room/same speakers as it was mixed in...not having any kind of the right perspective on the mixes...less than stellar acoustics/converters/monitors/experience...

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:11 pm

MoreSpaceEcho wrote:if you'd like we could have a discussion about REAL reasons not to master your own records. like mastering in the same room/same speakers as it was mixed in...not having any kind of the right perspective on the mixes...less than stellar acoustics/converters/monitors/experience...

All those...and also the different set of ears you're paying for, which might be the most important part.

MoreSpaceEcho · Post by **MoreSpaceEcho** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:45 pm

exactly. that's what i meant about having the right perspective on the mix. when i get someone else's record in to master, i can put it on and pretty quickly hear what's "wrong" with it...actually it's more about hearing what's right and bringing that out...but anyway when i master my own stuff it's a lot harder to know what to do because i'm so used to hearing the mix a certain way...

themagicmanmdt · Post by **themagicmanmdt** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:55 pm

DDP was explained to me (by Bob Weston) as an 'image' of the audio burned on a DVD. In a different form, DDP can be supplied on 'exabyte tape' (?), which I'm assuming is some form that comes from film production.

I had a problem, however, with my CD production place I used to print my last album not accepting the DDP image, and wanted a PMCD only. They said the DDP master was only accepted for DVD releases. Which is a bunch of bull.

RefD · Post by **RefD** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:22 pm

since we're also here to both teach and learn, this for the sake of anyone who doesn't know:

DDP

Disc Description Protocol. Developed by Doug Carson Associates and licensed at no charge. This standard has several revisions, including version 2 for DVD. DDP is used to create an image of a CD or DVD, so that the disc can be accurately replicated. It includes files that contain the contents of the disc, plus files that describe the format, structure, and any additional information. A DDP image written on DLT is the preferred format for delivery of a DVD titles to a replication facility. Two tapes are required for a DVD-9 (one for each layer). DDP images can also be sent through the Internet for immediate delivery to the replication facility.

Cellotron · Post by **Cellotron** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:51 pm

@?,*ƒƒƒ&™ wrote:Anyone heard of DDP Fileset?

ummm... yeah - http://www.dcainc.com/

Very good info on it here:

http://www.cdman.com/download/DDPWhitePaper.pdf

Looks like it provides an errorless delivery of material on disc.

Quotes like this show a misunderstanding of differences between CD-R masters and DDP images and current glass mastering optical disc manufacturing procedures.

I don't really have time to write once again regarding things like what various different "errors" on a CD-R master disc really means down the line - or detail things like Eclipse's secure DAE in the Image Encoder software update that happened back in 2002 iirc, etc. - but at this point a properly made CD-R master will get just as good sounding discs as using a DDP image long as the plant is using reasonably current glass mastering techniques and does proper quality control.

What DDP does however is give the ability to FTP a master image to plants that accept delivery via this method (and as such is the only image file acceptable for this).

No kid in his basement with mastering software is going to be able to do that.

Guaranteed.

That's absurd. Software that has the ability to create a DDP image can be purchased for as little as $400. Maybe out of the range of a "kid in the basement" but probably easily in the range of the average DAW user who most likely wouldn't have that hard of a time figuring it out after an afternoon of manual reading.

What CAN'T be easily purchased for that little is extensive experience mastering, a tuned room with excellently accurate full range monitors, and access to very high quality processors. The fact is if people actually want the best sound for their release then outside mastering at a dedicated mastering studio makes a heckuva lot of sense. What they are gaining is perspective as to whether any changes need to be made to get their release into the "zone" where it will translate best onto the widest variety of playback systems - and then the experience of the engineer which aids them inmaking good decisions as to what processing needs to get the release to this point, and then the level of quality of processing gear used at that point.

However - for folks that are just creating downloads or short runs with no real hopes of any real commercial reward at all then I totally understand "home mastering."

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Cellotron · Post by **Cellotron** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:30 pm

themagicmanmdt wrote:DDP was explained to me (by Bob Weston) as an 'image' of the audio burned on a DVD.

You can burn it onto CD-R as well - but then you have to make sure the replication plant doesn't give you back CD-ROM's containing DDP images!

Besides the audio data a DDP image also includes all subcodes (such as track index points, UPC/MCN, ISRC, etc.) necessary for making a replicated CD.

In a different form, DDP can be supplied on 'exabyte tape' (?), which I'm assuming is some form that comes from film production.

Exabyte is a proprietary 8mm tape format that holds digital data. It was commonly used for digital archives prior to CD-R's being common and at this point has been discontinued (but still in use by some replication plants).

DDP images can also be placed onto hard drives & DLT (another digital data tape format). As stated before DDP is also the only format that can be FTP'd to a plant.

I had a problem, however, with my CD production place I used to print my last album not accepting the DDP image, and wanted a PMCD only. They said the DDP master was only accepted for DVD releases. Which is a bunch of bull.

Yeah - a number of plants simply won't accept DDP images because it messes with their standard work flow.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

themagicmanmdt · Post by **themagicmanmdt** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:02 pm

^nice!

thanks for the extra info!

JGriffin · Post by **JGriffin** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:09 pm

themagicmanmdt wrote:DDP was explained to me (by Bob Weston) as an 'image' of the audio burned on a DVD. In a different form, DDP can be supplied on 'exabyte tape' (?), which I'm assuming is some form that comes from film production.

Exabyte is a tape-drive storage medium. It's about the size of a hi8 tape. Systems like Sonic Solutions use(d) it as a backup solution. They date from around 1992, and are still in use in some quarters. Not specifically from film production, though we did use it in radio/tv production. More likely it just came from the business/science computing worlds.

thethingwiththestuff · Post by **thethingwiththestuff** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:34 pm

ahh. it's 230 in the morning, i'm wasted, and jeff has once again been proved a douche.

i'll sleep well tonight.

then read about DDP in the morning.

xonlocust · Post by **xonlocust** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:58 pm

i had something [actually, my new band - that i recorded] mastered by bob weston this week. that's been the highlight of my week so far.

mastering is more fun than tracking and mixing i'm starting to think. you're 99.9% there by that point.

also, for those who haven't had the chance to sit in on mastering sessions with great MEs, it's a lot of fun and informative for your learning as an engineer. bob is great, but i've also learned a lot from everyone else i've worked with. everyone has their own styles and something you can learn from.

this DDP thing is new to me, thanks for hipping me to it.

i wish i were more wasted - i've actually been doing paying audio work...

chris harris · Post by **chris harris** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:22 am

when the hell are we getting an "ignore user" button on this messageboard?

Jeff White · Post by **Jeff White** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:16 am

thethingwiththestuff wrote:ahh. it's 230 in the morning, i'm wasted, and jeff has once again been proved a douche.

Tell us how you really feel.

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